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Accident near Capel WA

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  • #16
    I’m afraid I can’t comment on this situation - I have never seen a TAG folding mast. However I do believe that a correctly engineered folding mast is safe.
    Can anyone post a picture of this folding mast setup?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Tim View Post
      I’m afraid I can’t comment on this situation - I have never seen a TAG folding mast. However I do believe that a correctly engineered folding mast is safe.
      Can anyone post a picture of this folding mast setup?
      Hi Tim,

      if if you go to the login page on our web site the picture is of a blue TAG with a folding mast. Brett’s got his hand on the plate. I think it was at Wondai back in 2014.

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      • #18
        ASRA isnt the only group having trouble . At the same time as the "Orange" double fatality, two young fellas lost their lives in a LSA crash just 50K's out of Wentworth . It appears from a couple of eye witnesses that this accident was very avoidable had reasonably normal takeoff procedures been taken. There was another LSA fatality a few years ago in this area & it was a pilot who once again, should not have crashed but did so because they were flying too low . Too many risks being taken !!

        It seems both young & old are just as silly when it comes to flying .

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        • #19
          It seems to me there needs to be a change of culture in Sport Aviation. We need to find some common ground where we can all fly safely AND still have the fun that we are all looking for.
          We need more people like you Brian to be role models for our sport.

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          • #20
            Remember: no matter where you go, there you are

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            • #21
              Remember: no matter where you go, there you are

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              • #22
                Thanks for the vote Rick, I made plenty of mistakes back years ago that I learned from .

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                • #23
                  some more photos on the TAG dash
                  Remember: no matter where you go, there you are

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                  • #24


                    Does anyone have any photos of the tail, and in particular, the fixing points?
                    That seems to be an area of concern also.

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                    • #25
                      Hi, I don't think that you will be able to tell the difference from looking at the nutserts if they have been 'compressed'. A nutsert is a bit of a cross between a nut and a pop rivet. I do not know how the tail is made. at some stage during the process, a tool like a pop rivet gun is used, where the tool is screwed into the nutsert, and it is compressed so that inside the hole it pulls the threaded part tight against the inside surface (mushrooming a bit like a pop rivet).
                      Remember: no matter where you go, there you are

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                      • #26
                        Firstly let me state quite equivocality that I am in no way a trained engineer so I am only offering my opinion. I have very little knowledge of Titanium and its properties so only take what I say with a grain of salt.

                        One can only admire the TAG for its beautiful construction and attention to detail. I have only seen photos and have never personally laid eyes on one. Having said that the “mast” construction appears to be very similar to most of the “eurotubs” that are becoming more and more popular (which all seem to be a basic copy of the original tandem Magni), with the exception in this case of the folding mast option.

                        Obviously the integrity of the mast is paramount in a gyroplane. Tensile strength, elastic limits, fatigue limits and duration as well as inherent rotor vibration and any associated harmonics all play an important part in the durability of the mast.

                        There is no such thing as a “glass” smooth fixed two bladed rotor system, as used on over 99% of our gyro planes (and small helicopters). What often appears to be smooth is a result of inherent rotor vibration being absorbed by other parts or inbuilt features of the airframe or the control system. (Eg, a long limber mast, an anti-shock flexibly mounted mast, a flexibly mounted rotor head, a “slider” roll pivot in the head or even a flexible or flexibly mounted control system).

                        The extent of the inherent rotor vibration depends on many factors including, but not limited to, rotor balance, rotor diameter, rotor speed, and aircraft forward speed. All the facts and figures on paper in the world or indoor test beds can’t duplicate the hundreds of variables in the real world conditions. Unfortunately real world conditions are ultimately the test bed for every aircraft ever built.

                        In this last WA crash it is hard to see from the photos of the part submerged gyroplane but from the pictures of the website I would say that the failure would have been the folding “cheek” plates, either at the folding pivot bolt or the two bolts directly above it. Below that point the welded and braced stub mast is very rigid, leaving the short top mast section to absorb all the vibration, either through the flexible mounting bolt bushes or the mast itself (or both).

                        There was no indication as to the history of operation of this aircraft, which may or may not have contributed to this failure but because of a similar previous failure, it was known that this aircraft should never have been in the air. Rest assured that after the first failure the TAG company would have had all the stops out to take appropriate steps to ensure that this wouldn’t happen again.

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