Sharing or renting a gyro

[RossM]

Buying anything, one BIG important thing is, depends on what the minister for 'War and Finance' allows
If finances allow, and that is what you want, buy what you want. Though everyone is different.
What are you going to use the gyro for. Eventually touring with a partner, or having fun doing local flights by yourself (single seat)
Ross......

[deandob]

Minister for War and Finance has given the OK to spend what I want as long as it is safe but has to be a factory machine (which I agree with) and preferably new (near new is OK for me to save a few $$). She also makes it clear she has no intention getting in the back seat of one....

The gyro is a recreation machine, it will do shorties around SEQ (lots of interesting places from Fraser and Moreton Island down to Byron Bay and across to St. George) for sightseeing with the occasional longer trip with some of the guys in the SEQ club. I do want to take others (my daughter, friends) up in it occasionally hence a 2 seat tandem looks like the right machine type for me (not having the extra drag of a side by side machine when passengers will come along likely only 20% of the time).

I'd also like the option for a closed and open canopy (open for short trips, closed for longer) which then pretty much narrows the field down to ELA Eclipse, DTA J-Ro and Arrowcopter (2nd hand one available - these are too expensive new). Talking to Ian Morecombe there is also a new Sportscopter tandem that could be suitable and supposedly available end of 2017. I like the engineering in the TAGs but unfortunately a tandem with canopy isn't in the works for the short term.

[Waddles]

Gents,

Just a comment on castering nose wheels. Having operated both systems in gyros, I have found that as in tail dragger fixed wing aircraft, with castering nose wheels on a gyro, there must be a good, independent braking system that the pilot is capable of using without hesitation when things go wrong. My preference is toe operated, asymmetric hydraulic brakes, so that in a strong cross wind, on take-off or landing, if rudder authority is lost, a tap on the appropriate toe brake will maintain runway heading. This may not be the answer in the accidents Chook describes, but with the others, it may have helped.

My penny's worth.

Waddles.

[RickE]

I'd also like the option for a closed and open canopy (open for short trips, closed for longer) which then pretty much narrows the field down to ELA Eclipse, DTA J-Ro and Arrowcopter


You might want to add the Autogyro Calidus to your list as it now comes with a cabriolet option as well as the fully enclosed winter and cut-out summer canopy.

[deandob]

Thanks Rick, will look into the Calidus as well.

[jeff b]

Hey Rick, did the German factory finally release the small windscreen for the Calidus? Last I checked, they were not keen. Just one of their European distributors that made the "Cabrio" kit.

[RickE]

Yeah Jeff, I saw it on autogyro-owner.com

[WEST OZ FLYER]

Spent the day today at St George with Don Cramer looking at his DTA J-Ro (Thanks Don - lovely machine!) and we discussed the nosewheel pros / cons castering versus rudder linked. Don made a good point that a grass strip will be more forgiving for a

linked nosewheel

compared to a bitumen strip, as the grass strip will allow a misaligned wheel on landing to skid/slid until the gyro gets itself on the ground proper, while in a bitumen strip once the wheel bites into the bitumen if it is misaligned there is a much higher chance of rolling it. And a grass strip was better for beginners / new pilots to use because it is more forgiving (apart from hitting large stones / potholes...).

I call BS on this. You hear it time and time again that bitumen will flip your gyro, use grass or dirt. If any instructor is preaching this, find a new one. All you need is the wheels the break the surface, grab and over you go. The physics are simple, don't touch your main wheels down or leave the ground until your machine is straight in the direction of travel. Same applies for the nose wheel, make sure it is tracking straight in the direction of travel, at the lowest possible ground speed and keep it off the ground as long as possible. Gyros aren't Cessna's and don't need to land at high speeds and make long landing runs.

Doesn't matter if it is dirt, grass, bitumen, linked or castoring nose wheel the physics are still the same, IT ALL COMES BACK TO THE PILOT IN COMMAND!


I am with Tim on the slow and gradual accelleration. For me it is a mind set thing. If you firewall that sucker you have less time to feel your machine and work everything out. One missed step could spell disaster. Meanwhile if you take the gradual approach you can be one or two steps ahead of your machine rather than flying by the seat of your pants. If you are not happy it is easier to abort when you are thinking about it than when it happens.

This bathtub style takeoff is marginal at best. You are way too close to the edge for my liking. If you take off on grass and then do the exact same takeoff on bitumen, this is the only difference that is needed to high speed flap your blades. If that happens you haven't managed the rotors properly because you don't know how and why.

Allan will set you on the right path though.

Have you thought about a single seat factory machine? Aviomania do a enclosed single seater. Haven't seen one personally yet. Not sure about other manufacturers. Reality is that you will do more flying on your own than with a passenger.

[Tim]

"a 2 seat tandem looks like the right machine type for me (not having the extra drag of a side by side machine.

Deandob, don't discount a side by side machine too hastily. A open side by side is very draggy, but so is an open frame tandem."
Given that both machines have correctly designed partial or full enclosures then the coefficient of drag on both machines is very similar. The tandem has a longer forward moment arm and consequently requires a larger rear moment arm (more rudder and HS area, or further back) to offset for yaw and pitch stability. This extra weight causes extra drag on the rotors which have to spin faster to compensate.
Side by sides have a distinct advantage in being able to communicate freely (in some machines without headsets) and to more readily demonstrate in the training inviroment or to an interested party. Also they are generally shorter which has advantages in hangarage space and trailering. I don't know but I would imagine the biggest problem with modern partial/enclosed side by side's would be the cost.
The main advantage of a tandem would be that you could probably pick up a s/h machine cheaper, and some pilots may relish the opportunity to sit a little more remote from their pax.
Tim

[tonydenton]

I wish you had posted that 5 or 6 years ago Tim. an interesting look at it as always

[deandob]

West Oz Flyer, good advice. Been doing takeoffs, circuits and landings practice with Allan this week and keeping the landing velocity down is a point that I have to work on (ie. not safe to land at a speed for reasons you covered) and being smooth on the throttle for takeoff. The landing sequence is quite complex as the gyro has to go through several phases to complete the landing sequence (for Allan's RAF anyway) properly. So more practice needed for me to master takeoff/landings better, as these are clearly the most riskiest aspects of flying a gyro and need skill and proper procedure.

Tim, thanks for the logic comparing side by side versus tandem, the physics of needing a larger tail in a tandem due to the larger front moment makes perfect sense, adding to the drag. As West Oz flyer mentions, most flying is likely to be solo, so communicating a bit easier with a passenger isn't a top priority. For me, I don't like the feeling of flying with very little substance around me - so no open air machines, the singles are also too small, the tandems a bit better but still feels like a flying motorbike and the side by sides actually feel like 'real plane' which I do like but was concerned about them being sluggish. The DTA J-Ro does a good job of having that real plane feeling while still having excellent visibility and being reasonably agile (as it is still a tandem).

[RickE]

From a pilots point of view they are all great fun. From a passengers point of view the side x side is definitely the best as the sight picture is the same as the pilot.
A big part of your decision is the amount of time you intend flying by yourself. Enclosed side x sides are pretty pricey and not great value for money when flying solo.
Probably the most versatile gyros available at the moment is the range of enclosed tandems, I would however be looking for one with a "summer" style canopy particularly if your flying around QLD.
My opinion anyway!

[deandob]

my thinking exactly Rick - a tandem with the option of enclosed & summer canopy.