Gyro Accident Tasmania

[birdy]

what did I do as the pilot to cause my nut freezing joy?Yeh, you fell into cold wter. But look on the brite side ol mate, you get anatha chance to use them cold nuts, coz of the cold water.

[Ken Watson]

I think we will never know what happened. The accident may be as simple as the bolts being wrong way up in the hub bar, a pure preflight miss that we all are probably guilty of. In flight pilot error is highly unlikely. The real worry is if it is component failure; particularly if it was rod end. A knee jerk reaction is not needed such as the cable quick fix. If the board was so concerned about the rod ends then an A.D. should have been issued in regards to all rod ends or some serious testing of the rod ends we use should have been done. There should be tensile strengths of rod ends available from the manufacturers , assumming it is a tension failure. It may be as simple as us all going up a size. I know Gerry Goodwin thinks we should be using 3/8. With the Larkin hub bar incident all were immediately grounded until it was investigated and then ASRA"s AD was for new hub bars to replace the old with an upgrade in size and type of aluminium.Asra did not just tell us to pop rivet a sheet of mild steel on top of the old hub bar or run some stainless wire over the top of the teeter block joining the tangs in case of a failure so you might just get back to the ground. Murrays intentions are good, but I think he and others may have rushed the thinking. I think all involved should take a big breath and stand back and look at what they are suggesting. If this was the sort of fix you would do on a car then there is no way the RTA would pass it. If there was an AD issued telling us to all go to larger rod ends, I wouldn"t have a problem with it. I know at the moment this only relates to Butterflies, but if it was a rod failure as Murray suggests and if the board is more than 50% convinced of that, then it will have consequences for all of us and I believe if they are 50% sure then an AD should be issued on all rod ends.The fix that has been suggested is no better than a paperclip, unless someone has flown the safety cable and knows it works. Maybe an AD suggesting detailed preflights with detailed examination of each rod end would be better. Everyones preflights get a bit slack at times. Ken

[hatrack]

The accident may be as simple as the bolts being wrong way up in the hub bar, a pure preflight miss that we all are probably guilty of.I didnt know there was a wrong way. Which is the right way?

[Disco]

The accident may be as simple as the bolts being wrong way up in the hub bar, a pure preflight miss that we all are probably guilty of.I didnt know there was a wrong way. Which is the right way?The right way would be the way that gives the most clearance from the prerotator.

[Greg Mitchell]

Here"s what I"m thinking....The facts and figures supplied are given in good faith and have been the same figures stated from the beginning. There are many witnesses to our re-telling of the event, long before it went to paper on this thread. Ask them the facts and figures are still the same. The discussion about possible causes was instigated by us in good faith. Allan nor myself is under no obligation to discuss this here with you. We do so as a courtesy and to improve safety and the sport generally Sure there could be some catastrophic failure of the torque tube, the crossover bar, the push rods or rod ends or some other part of the control system. I agree and have done so from the start. It could also have been something else....perhaps the tooth fairy, was performing a tooth removal via Allan"s back passage and .....God forbid any non muster should be caught in weather more severe than your most harrowing experience. Nay not Us mere mortals. > Conflict of interest.....decide for yourself, if you read my posts you"d know the history. We have sold 3 gyros in 5 years and 2 of those were bought and constructed by partners in the importation of said kit gyroplanes. Allan"s and mine. (Oh yeah, did you not know Allan is a business partner in the importation of these kits.) The 3rd has been under construction and in limbo for sometime, just delivered to it"s new owner, who happens to be a musterer on a QLD cattle station. The new owner is fully aware of current events and wanted to continue with the purchase from the original owner.So there are only two people "at risk", me and him, here in OZ. Nobody has been buying kits. I cant tell the USA manufacturer what to do....though I am in daily contact with him re this matter as is Allan.

[Brian]

Mitch is a very good friend of mine and well thought of by other board members and yes, he hosted the 09 nationals, in no way has that any influence on any decision regarding this investigation, believe me, if action needed or needs to be taken, it most certainly will.Everyone involved has co-operated completely. We did have every reason to believe that Allan"s gyro would be retrieved as it was sighted by more than one person and we believed that a salvage operation could be done which would have been the best result to determine the actual cause.I have been disappointed to see some remarks from various people. I"m sure that had the two of you been in the same room talking about this same issue, you both would be friends at the end of the conversation, a lot of stuff can be mis-interpreted over the keyboard, I have been caught out myself on a couple of occasions.Enough name calling guys. Allan had a extremely serious accident in which he could well have lost his life so please treat this matter with the respect Allan deserves.

[bosca]

Good post Brian.

[Tim]

Some further observations, (crashes aside):-In

[firefly]

Hmmm..... thought females were sposed to be the b*%$h fighters

[Ken Watson]

Anyone care to comment on what I wrote? Maybe a board member? Ken

[Mark Horan]

trust ken to get in while I was writing the last post!in reveiw, kens post wasnt too far off the mark either.Mark.

[birdy]

I read your post Ken.But now, I"ll respond. [ oh yeh, ya dichead ]You suggest an AD to beef up the rod ends. Tim says and I"ll agree that in all the years gyros have flown, NEVER has a rodend been know to fail in flight without prior stresses.Isn"t your suggestion the same as the "paper clip" one then? An over-reaction?The "paper clip" is functional and costs buggerall, most people already have the materials, and it weighs the same as a ..... paperclip.If i remember correctly, theres a retired instructor bloke in the NT that has had actual real time experience with the paperclip saven his ass. Don"t know the circumstances, but ill try to find out.I doubt it was a rodend too, coz its a relatively low hour machine, only ever driven by a granny on Sundays.

[Ken Watson]

Yep, thats what I wanted to hear ( ya knowall basket). So the paperclip is proven. O.K. I agree about the rod ends too. Interested in a skyhook? Only 4 left. Echo bought 2 one for a backup incase the other skyhook failed. I pointed out that that might fail to so he should buy 3, but couldn"t milk $270 out of the sucker(i mean client). Ken

[bosca]

Thanks Mark. The fact that you like to underestimate me has to be a good thing.

[elwynne]

I think I have missed something along the way, what is the "paper clip"