Gyro crash and burn in WA

[asra]

A gyrocopter crashed and burnt near Geraldton in Western Australia yesterday. I believe it was a RAF.No serious injuries.

[asra]

Gurkle, It was not a RAF, all the best Pete BarsdenPete Barsden

[asra]

Hi guys.. just the right timing for me.... (hope they are alright).Im in Melbourne and got in contact with a Mad Dog Morgan to take me up hopefully this weekend for my first flight/lesson... been reading about gyrocopters the past few months and am really keen to give it a go and see how it plays out after that.If you find out anymore info on why/what happened would be very interested... taPhill

[asra]

PhillIf your interested in gyro's and want to speak to other people who also are, then I recommend you join the members of the Rotorcraft Association of Victoria at there bi-monthly meeting at the North Fitzroy Arms Hotel cnr. Reid & Rae street North Fitzroy at 7.30 pm Monday the 8th August 2005.Regards Sam. [][][]

[asra]

Thanks SamL.. have jotted that down and will try and make it. I have been put in touch with a Mad-Dog Morgan (had a laugh when I heard his nick name) and have arranged to meet him this weekend, (6th August) if the weather is ok to have a look etc... cant wait!!![]

[asra]

Just getting back to the incident ... sorry fellas ...Did anyone find out any more about this incident ?? What type of craft and any thoughts on the cause of the crash.Safe Flying ... ding Good judgment comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgment

[NiqueNaque]

Well,Surprise surprise,Mr Bruty is still alive, and he most graciously posted an article for my attention. Thank you Paul..Have a read, it seems that the Americans know more about it than we do..Cheers,Nick.http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/sho...4409#post74409

[asra]

They seem to have the knowledge through experience that we lack. Maybe they can put some light to the possibities of why without personal profanities effecting their judgement.Safe Flying ... ding Good judgment comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgment

[asra]

if this accident was caused because of a hub bar failier I would like to know why we as ASRA members especially as licenced pilots we are not noterfied instantly or as soon as possiblew drewery

[asra]

dreweryw,As your probably aware ASRA need to acertain the facts before they issue any sort of statement on this or any other incident. Commenting on things without the facts is left for a few .... I say no more []It'll come as soon as they have investigated I'm sure. Until then we'll have to speculate ....Safe Flying ... ding Good judgment comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgment

[Tim]

You will have to bear with us. The accident is being investigated as we speak and we have to be sure of the cause before we release a report. What could appear as a failed hub bar could have been caused by many factors, including ground strike or high speed flap. We should hear very soon.Tim McClure

[asra]

quote:Originally posted by dingThey seem to have the knowledge through experience that we lack. Maybe they can put some light to the possibities of why without personal profanities effecting their judgement.Safe Flying ... ding Good judgment comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgmentWell said Ding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Russ

[Des Garvin]

Remember [?] the people investigating the incedents are volinteers and they do have a life to live like the rest of us[]. They will release details when they are complete. Keep up the good work ASRA board members. And last but not least I thank you for your efforts. Happy flying all, Des Garvin

[Adrian S]

Guys,I am in the middle of the investigation into the WA accident as we speak along with a few more investigations that are ongoing. I am sure that the pilot in command and his student appreciate that unfounded conclusions dont end up becomming folk lore or worse still dangerous mis-information!What I can tell you at this point is that there is evidence of a hubbar failure at the point of take off leading the gyro to roll to the left. This led to the gyro tumbling over and catching on fire. Both occupants have escaped with a few broken ribs and superficial burns.Unfortunatly it was a "hot fire" and there is not much left of the airframe to inspect. Luckily the head, hubbar and a few other parts are available to inspect as well as significant "witness marks" spread down the strip. For the rest of the report you shall have to wait for the test report on the hubbar before I can confirm wether the failure was caused by a stress crack or the extrusion had inherent flaws. Blades & hubbar were AK.On another related manner I have been investigating the prevelence of hubbar failures ( 2 reported failures and 3 reported cracks in past 18 months)and the contributing factors that have led to these.The following summarises my findings to date but you should all understand that this investigation will lead to a series of new AD's to be released shortly on hubbars, placing a fixed life before NDT testing is required and a maximum life before replacement.In summary the current evidence suggests;1.The level of training pilots have been undertaking is leading to fewer blade strikes occuring therefor allowing some blades to remain servicable right upto the previous notional service life of the hubbar ie 1500hrs (note some hubbars ie RAF only have a service life before testing of 500hrs).2. The weight of blades and gyro designs has been steadily increasing leading to faster rotor speads to maintan flight and the resultant exponential increase in stresses on the hubbar. Evidence also suggests that high energy prerotators are a contributing factor.3. Hubbar design has not progressed to allow for these high loads.4. Most hubbar cracks have occured in hubbars with over 1000hrs recorded operational hours.5. Most hubbar cracks have occured on gyros that are used for flying training, mustering and other "high energy" flying.6. Not all Gyro owners keep a detailed aircraft log book or actually know for certain the history of what they purchased. 7. ASRA has inspected a number of hubbars that have in excess of 2500hrs use and they exibit no cracks when NDT tested.8. Anecdotal evidence suggests that Australia is possibly the nation with the most examples of high hour gyros operating from unprepared strips and regularly flying such high energy manouvers as found in cattle mustering. The ASRA training sylabus requires full auto landings.9. Gyro pilots have a poor understanding of the stress raisers that lead to cracks and failure.10. Gyro pilots sometimes dont like adhering to service life recommendations and operate on the principal if its not broke dont worry!11. ASRA needs to get better at providing more specific advice regarding design standards whilst not curtailing the design freedoms we currently have.12. The blade manfacturers in OZ are cooperating fully with ASRA and have expressed a commitment to work together to develope solutions to what problems we currently are experiencing.13. ASRA encorages information from other learned and equally experienced gyro people from across the world.14. There is now examples of most types of blades currently in use in OZ with high hours (over 500hrs) that have found to develop cracks.Guys I hope that this has provided the info you were seeking and that you look forward to the comming AD's and see the merit in adhering to them. I think you will find that we have a wealth of experience here in OZ and we must all be patient and wait for a well researched but still timely outcomes.As in the past if I can help further please dont hesitate to call. Also I have updated my profile to include the details presently requested by other forum users.Regards,Adrian STOFFELSTechnical Manager (Volunteer)ASRAMob 0427094552I hope this interim report is what you are all looking for but I ask you to be patient

[Des Garvin]

Adrian, Well done and thankyou for your commitment to the investigations. Des Garvin