Double Cable Swaging - Risky technique

[Greg Mitchell]

Pete,No need to keep repeating yourself.Just because someone has a trade does not mean they can do a particular job better or even as well in some cases as some one who takes a measured approach. Your a lucky man if you have never come across a useless tradesperson or had substandard work done. Next time we meet you'll have to give my bald spot a little rub for me, just for luck.As to being carefull about making such statements...Humbug!In many cases over the years I did know better after fully preparing myself and have done far better quality work. So I fail to take your point on board. Sorry!I've made my point and you yours.... Mitch.www.thebutterflyllc.comA thinker sees his own actions as experiments and questions--as attempts to find out something. Success and failure are for him answers above all. - Friedrich Nietzsche

[Greg Mitchell]

Hey Pete,While your having a 'go' about the tradesman thing, why not address the modified cable cutters comments, that would be fair. After all this is a 'tradespersons' tool and should be of a high quality. And with our kits we dont do the cables we let the client decide if they want to get a 'cheap' professional job done through a marine mob or do it themselves. We provide the SS Cable and swagges, thimbles ect.Using a Nicopress swagger and following their instructions with respect to installations ect should see even a highly qualified medical person do a proper job.If done correctly, there is no need to go get a tradesperson or be concerned about it failing.Then if you happen to need to do some repairs at anytime you have the tools and ability to do so. If there are any tradespeople out there who took offence to my original comment.. "Then again, I'd rather do most things for myself....these so called experts and tradesmen are prone to do crap work and expect top dollar for it."...then I apologise, you must be good at what you do. I bet there are some of you who have not been a lucky as Pete and have had dealings with sub-standard 'tradies'.Mitch.www.thebutterflyllc.comA thinker sees his own actions as experiments and questions--as attempts to find out something. Success and failure are for him answers above all. - Friedrich Nietzsche

[Greg Mitchell]

G'Day Peter A,Mate, a big Congratulations on your solo flight. Well done Bloke!Geoff called to give me the details but I did not get to talk to him.Yes Peter, I know Bob from Rope and Chain, though I think he is semi retired now. His son/son-in-law lived next door to me for about 10 weeks whilst his house was being built. He now runs the business.It must be said that when I first went to see Bob about my throttle cable set-up (again, I had know knowledge or skills in this area), Bob did not know what I was talking about with respect to the throttle cable splitter box for the dual carbies. So I took my Spruce product in for him to look at.I did my own throttle cable set up as well.I will definitely get them to do my SS wire deck balustrades with all the flash SS fittings and turn buckles ect.Fly Safe Peter and enjoy, you've done well.Cheers,Mitch.www.thebutterflyllc.comA thinker sees his own actions as experiments and questions--as attempts to find out something. Success and failure are for him answers above all. - Friedrich Nietzsche

[asra]

Thanks MitchBob is good at what he does,his son not so good.I agree to a point some tradesmen do crap work but there are some that show skill and interest in all jobs they do.Some people are thrown into jobs that they are not suitable for or have no interest in,they are the ones that do the crap work.Then there are the tear asses that rush a job just for the quick money turn over.Most of our skills to do the jobs ourselves are picked up from the "good" tradesmen and you can tell they have interest in what they do by the way they share there joys and mistakes on the internet.A trade certificate is not a piece of paper it's years of experience!Sorry for getting a bit off topic people!!!!Peter Adams

[asra]

Greg,Sometimes you just have to repeat youself until the message sinks in.........The taught definition of a tradesman, "one who does work in a tradesman and workmanship like manner".Trades are taught, thats what apprentiships are all about, the teaching covers both the theory and the practicical, and during this time the apprentice learns the "tricks of the trade", this handing down of knowledge is what sets apart/the difference between the person who "knows" how it's done properly against the person who "thinks" he knows how it is done.I will use myself as an example;_ when I wanted to learn how to "Pacivate" and "Anodize" I bought books on the subject and "hammered" the Web sight, and could not get either to come out like the bought article until I got hold of a person that did both for a living and showed me the "tricks of the trade", if all these different skills (trades) could be done by just reading books an utilizing the Web sight there would be no such thing as trades and apprentiships, however time has proven that theory alone is just not good enough.To repeat myself again, it is the teaching that makes the difference between a "tradesman" and the home "handyman".At this very moment in Australia, and particular W.A. there is a crisis caused by the lack of "skilled" tradesmen/women, and over here a tradesman can almost name his price.To answer the question on "modified" bolt cutters, I really would not know, because a "tradesman" uses the correct tool for the job and uses it correctly, this is also what places him apart from the "handy" man."If done correctly, there is no need to go get a tradesperson or be concerned about it failing".The above statement is correct, however, the person would have to be taught how it is done "correctly", not just have an "opinion" on how it is done."Then if you happen to need to do some repairs at anytime you have the tools and ability to do so".The answer to this is the same as above."If there are any tradespeople out there who took offence to my original comment.."Greg, I don't think any "tradesmen" would take offence, however, I am sure they would put you to the challenge to do it better."...then I apologise, you must be good at what you do. I bet there are some of you who have not been a lucky as Pete and have had dealings with sub-standard 'tradies'".As said before a tradesman does the task in a tradesman and workmanship like manner, the problem here is that the person that fronts up to your front door may not actually be a tradesman, you just assume he is, there is nothing to stop you asking which company he did his apprentiship with, in the case of Electrical, gas fitting etc you could ask to see his "current" licence."As to being carefull about making such statements...Humbug!In many cases over the years I did know better after fully preparing myself and have done far better quality work. So I fail to take your point on board. Sorry!"Greg, I am afraid the above statement is an "unqualified" one, based only on an "opinion".All the best to you and your family for the New Year. Pete Barsden

[Greg Mitchell]

Sounds like you got SOL over the other stuff Pete.I'm not good at much Pete, but what I sink my teeth into I can usually do as well. Heck, sometimes better....how are we QUALIFYING THIS PETE?I'm sure many people on this forum have met many such people. People who have a go and get well prepared and within a short peoriod, turn out stuff, many a tradie would be proud of. This is way off topic and far beyond the technical info I thought to put forward. Which had to do with gyro's and not egos over who is a tradie, who is a 'teacher' and who isn't.Send down your BEST STONE PITCHER and lets see what we can do. Resonably qualified there and the basic principles of that applies to laying up FRP. Interesting world Pete. I will continue to be an 'arm chair web surfing geek' and be more than happy with my thirst for knowldge and how it is applied not matter what some may think of my methodology.Go to any Marine product web site that sells cable end fittings and tools to fit same and this is what you'll see"Thimble & Ferrule Eye cable system:Thimble & ferrule eye system - Simple end termination for easy on-site installation. Exact eye to eye dimension must be specified. "It works and there are ways to confirm same without the use of a trades person or having to be shown first hand. FACT.All the best to you and yours as previously offered privately.Mitch.www.thebutterflyllc.comA thinker sees his own actions as experiments and questions--as attempts to find out something. Success and failure are for him answers above all. - Friedrich Nietzsche

[asra]

Greg,You asked me about the "tradesman" thing, and I believe that I gave you an accurate comprehensive reply on the subject and in a correct and polite manner, unlike your opening reply line.I agree with Peter Adams, "A trade certificate is not a piece of paper it's years of experience!",(and can be an on going thing for life).Greg, rather than go on the defensive, listen what other people are actually saying, and fortunatly at my age and experiance I have not set out to prove anything, nor do I have to prove anything.As this conversation appears to be getting heavier, I would suggest as I have said before on this forum that we take it out of the world wide public arena and either Phone or Email each other.All the best, Pete Barsden

[asra]

My two bobs worth. Earlier in this thread I stated I personally hand-swagged my rigging on a substantial yacht I built with no difficulty. I even had a sample hand swagge cut and polished to check its effectiveness which proved to be without problem.Alas I was a younger man then and in those days everything I could do I did do. I replaced the rudder cables on my hirth powered gyro a year back but this time I had them done professionally. Why? Well why not. The yachting supply business could supply the cable, the thimbles and the swagging collars. They even swagged them using a hydraulic press exerting many tons of pressure and even better, the result looked magnificant, not like the odd squeezed shapes you get by doing it by hand. This came at a most modest price I was happy to pay and the job was done by somone who does it for a living. These days I am happy to give such work to the professionals who have the right gear.Pete

[asra]

Pete,I agree with you completely (100%).Pete Barsden

[Greg Mitchell]

No Pete,I just posted some technical data to show everyones point was valid.You jumped in with your repeated comments long before the 'tradie thing' and later the question was not directed at you as you well know, because you have never had a problem with tradies.!!Find fault with the home made swaggers if you must, leave the easy to use nicopress swagging, without the need for a professional demonstration, alone.And so I dont keep repeating myself....I'm outta here. Mitchwww.thebutterflyllc.comA thinker sees his own actions as experiments and questions--as attempts to find out something. Success and failure are for him answers above all. - Friedrich Nietzsche

[asra]

Greg,Email comming........................Pete Barsden

[asra]

Time to SWAGE WARSpruce and specialty have swage blocks that can be hammered or squeezed in a press, thay also sell cable swagers which work well, I ordered a set thinking I would recieve a Nicopress Brand unit but recieves a "LOOS cables " brand instead. apart from feeling ripped off they still worked well. I have tested cables to destruction and have found that thay will pull through a single swage in some instances. I aggree with Mr Bradly the double swage is a safe option and if made with a little slack between swages will indicate slippage if it goes tight. A set of swage blocks for low volume use should be easy to machine up from some quality steel or just mail order from "spruce and Spec"cheersGGGyro Gearloose

[asra]

Dont you hate it when you realise after you have made a post at page one that the topic is exhausted on the next 4 pages.Going back to sleep.GGGyro Gearloose

[NiqueNaque]

Alex,We still value your contribution.Cheers,Nick.

[asra]

We are doomed!Daryl Patterson