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I know they´re used in experimental autos but how about a Gyro, or any other aircraft?If the most efficient petrol/deisel engine in a car gets 20%+ of the energy in the fuel to the back wheels, and a fuel cell converts say, 70- 80% + to electrical energy, then if you add an electric motor which could be up to 90% efficient, you will be getting roughly three times the energy out of a tank of petrol that an ICE engine (internal combustion engine) can achieve. Electric motors are light for their power output but I have no idea how much a fuel cell weighs. Any thoughts on this[?]Hoges
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Avalability could be a bit of a hang up out ere.Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.You can always get the answer you want, if you ask enough experts.
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I should think that the required battery weight would be considerable but I dont know any thing about them.What about if you had a smaller gas engine running around idle speed, driving a generator to power the electric engine ?With that set up you may not need batteries ?You would have a problem if the gas engine stopped but that already exists anyway.Robert DunnMackay. Qld.Growing old is good while it lasts.
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Hi Rob, With a fuel cell you don´t need batteries. The fuel cell converts the energy in the fuel directly into electricity. The fuel cell is pretty much a solid state device. Most fuel cells use hydrogen but there are a few that use gasoline. So, all you would need is an appropriate fuel cell (for Avgas, say) and the right electric motor, direct drive of course, and you´re there. Have a look at this link.http://www.fuelcells.org/Birdy, Yeah, OK.... compressed hydrogen might be a bit hard to come by out your way.... at the moment but you never know what technology is around the corner.Hoges
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Come on realy go try & pick up a 15hp electric motor now look at a 50-100hp one 200-300kgs? KISS keep it simple stupid, words to live by Butch
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Hi Butch,Yeah, I know what you mean, the type you would see running a conveyor or something. The type I´m talking about is designed to be light and they´re often used in electric vehicle conversions. Have a look at this motor. It´s an AC induction motor and weighs 49kg for 78kw (106.6 hp) output. It wouldn´t require a gearbox either.The only other thing you´d need is an appropriate fuel cell and a motor controller. I know motor controllers weigh around 6-10 kgs depending on the type and capacity.It´s the fuel cells that I´m not sure about regarding weight. Maybe they´re really heavy?I will look it up in my Funk and Wagnells (google).Image Insert:
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How long will it run on the WD-40 fuel cell??Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.You can always get the answer you want, if you ask enough experts.
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Birdy,Can´t you read? It says 20 poosent longer on the can!Looked up my F&W s and found a suitable (but probably expensive) fuel cell. Little bit more grunt than we really need (85kw continuous) and a little bit too heavy at 96kgs. I´m sure they must make a lighter one somewhere. Still need to put the hydrogen somewhere as well though.The ´Mark 902´ looks good.http://www.ballard.com/be_a_customer/spec_sheetsI think it´s the one they put in the Ford passenger fuel cell powered car.Hoges
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I understand that most fuel cells will be heavy ... they necessarily contain platinum, palladium and the like, all of which weigh heavy. You can lighten the case and support frames, but for high output power you have to use high pressure gases which takes the weight up again. The power density of fuel cells is good, but not as good as an IC engine.If you are bent on going electric, try the vanadium redox battery. It contains its charge in the electrolyte rather than the (lightweight) plates. So you have a small battery with a small fluid pump to pump in the electrolyte at whatever rate you want to extract electricity. To recharge, you replace the spent electrolyte with charged stuff and off you go. Much like refuelling an engine fuel tank except you have to drain the old electrolyte first.Avoid strong drink! It makes you shoot at tax collectors ....and miss!(Robert Heinlein)R.J.W.S.
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Ron,Yes, they do seem to pretty heavy but with an IC engine being about the most inefficient power plant there is (maximum about 20%) they make almost any alternative look good. Keeping in mind that IC Engine technology was invented during the 1700- 1800´s the principle is almost completely unchanged except for the use of some fancy new high-tech materials, I´ll still have to fly around with Fred Flinstones´ concept design until they make some nice light fuel cells, or something better?Have at the electric bike;http://www.locating.com.au/ebikes/Hoges
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Your right Scott the IC engine is old hat but most of us have a good understanding of them. Though we should definatly beon the lookout for next big thing thanks for doing the leg work on this one as Edison said he didnt fail 2000 times he descovered 2000 ways NOT to make a lightbulb.Scott have a look at the BMW R1100S light & ripe for power upradesButch
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Hi Scott I think the path finder experimental solar plane had lite weight fuel cells in congunction with the solar panels which are embeded in the upper surface of the wing, I think this flying wing attained 30km altitude using props!?Lite weight extreme rpm neodymium motors could be arranged in a planetary drive system?Pete K
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I had no idea that the internal combustion engine had inspired such a revolt. (no pun intended).power to weight in an electric motor is directly affected by the frequency. for example a 1.5 hp motor at 50 cycles weighs about 12kg the same motor in 400 cycles weighs about 3 kg so if we extrapolate this out to 100hp we are looking at a realy heavey engine at the best case senario plus the fuel cell. Then there is the cost and the waste from the hydrocarbons supply so we are still carrying fuel. and to include a generator that can produce enough current flow ( approx 35 amps at 200 volts) you may as well just fit a snowmobile engine. So keep the ROTAX.GG
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