Newbies report and High hrs dont.?????

[Greg Mitchell]

I know. Too generalised. Should readMost all Newbies report their incidents publicly for discussion so others can learn from their mistakes.Most high hrs pilots do not.Why is it so?Mitch.

[birdy]

Wot makes you think that mitch? ???I blab bout every stuffup iv had.

[NiqueNaque]

Birdman,Have to agree with you there, we all make mistakes and it pays to listen to a newbie who"s made a mistake equally as well as a pro who makes a mistake.. you can learn from any mug.cheers,Nic.

[Greg Mitchell]

Did you missed my point Nick? Of course I agree we can learn from new folk right on through to high hrs pilots.I"m asking a question. I"m making a statement, in order to encourage discussion about whether or not this might be a real trend and as Birdy suggests, lack of reporting might have a lot to do with ego.Yes Birdy I agree you do and I have paid attention to all your threads specifically those that relate to stuff ups.

[birdy]

Could it also be that the more hours you clock up, the less stacks you have?? [ experiance]

[Greg Mitchell]

One would hope so Birdy! I"m wondering more about the high hrs pilot who has an accident followed by silence :-X ( and therefore no membership discussion and subsequent sharing of knowledge ), when looked at against the newbie who reports so others may not make the same mistake. Perhaps the newbie overcompensates a little in the excitement of being part of such a group and the desire to report and be part of the process, the high hrs pilot may be more invested in maintaining the ego and possibly training and business interests.

[NiqueNaque]

Mitch,No points missed, I"d just stated the obvious.Have to agree that the "ego" aspect of it is an issue but I"d be thinking that the protection of business interests would be a primary motivator in keeping one"s gob shut, I run a business and would most likely do the same as anyone else with a vested interest in remaining silent, there is one thing that prevails against all this though, as a tradesperson in training, I was told that you can make as many mistakes as you like - just be sure to fix them all before you leave the job. I try to work to that as best possible, I guess the ones that don"t fix it are the ones that are either in financial trouble or have criminal intentions and hope to prey on their client"s ignorance as I so often see.If you go spruiking your stuff ups it doesn"t matter whether you have fixed them it will taint your reputation as people looooooooove bad news, they seem to disregard good news - it doesn"t seem to sell as well. The olde "did you hear that x crashed his car into y"s and damaged it" is rarely followed by "and he paid to fix it up via his insurance". The last bit never gets a mention, having been in that boat I know it is the case as people hang onto the sensational bits of "damage" and forget the sensational fact that "rectification" happens most of the time. They forget that the driver has driven 5 or 6 cars into the ground and amassed millions of kilometres in total safety before the one event where they scratch the bonnet of someone else"s car in the space of half a metre, there is more excitement over that half a metre than in any of the millions before it. Oddly enough sometimes bad press does work in some people"s favour, though it shouldn"t, maybe some people can see the forest for the trees.Anyway, time to go..Cheers,Nic.

[Disco]

I"m wondering more about the high hrs pilot who has an accident followed by silence :-X ( and therefore no membership discussion and subsequent sharing of knowledge ), when looked at against the newbie who reports so others may not make the same mistake. yeah I know what you mean.

[Brian]

I fess up, I didn"t report. Not sure why other than I was busy at the time and just did not think about it later when I did have time!I agree that all accidents /incidents should be reported so that other"s can learn from mistakes.

[Tim]

G"day Mitch. If I may offer an opinion here. We really need to define "experience here. In my opinion;-0 to 50 hours = newbie50 to 500 hours = low hour pilot500 to ~ = high hour pilot.In my experience, most of the high hour pilots are good at reporting - although sometimes a bit slow.The newbies are usually fairly good too - possibly because it would be harder for their accident to go unnoticed. The low hour pilots appear to be the worst at faithfully reporting their accidents. This is the period that many pilots consider that they have a handle on it, and an accident would cause embarassment.It is a pity - if everybody faithfully reported their accidents, they would gain more respect from the rest and just may save someones life one day.Another thing that may make the statistics seem lopsided is that the newbie has approx 10 times the accident rate per hour as the low hour pilot, and closer to 100 times the rate as the high hour pilot (up till fairly recently). Thus the newbie reporting considerably more accidents than the high hour pilot is to be expected.You are right though, there are many accidents not reported, and also many that are not reported truthfully.

[birdy]

I was told that you can make as many mistakes as you like Nik, that shoulda been followed with, " as long as you dont repeat them".I also think the "type" of bingle has a bearing on reporting too.If theres a structural or engine failure, and ol mate dose a top job just be"n able to walk away, then you can bet everyone will hear bout it.But if its caused by " the dreaded pilot error", youll hear of alota things that dont add up, coz he"s tryn to shift blame from him to sumone/ sumthn else.[ like that idiot who banked too low, too hard and smacked his rotor on the ground last year. ]

[asra]

G"day Mitch,AS always, Tims post is well considered.I see 2 reasons for incident reporting. The first being for statistics, the second so that others can learn from mistakes. I see the stats as being very important. If the only incidents that got reported were fatals or injuries, then the "powers that be" could look at us and say that there in a 100% chance that the pilot will be killed or injured in the case of an incident. If every incident was reported (and there were, say, 100 reports for every injury/fatal) then the stats would be 1% inury/fatal in the case of an incident. This being the case, we would have gone from being the unsafest form of aviation to the safest (which we all know it is)without changing a thing.I"m probably as guilty as anyone for not reporting. Not because I didn"t want to, but because I didn"t think about it at the time. It"s only in light of recent incident reporting that I now consider them "incidents". None involved damage of any sort. They were:1. Engine out due to carb ice (my EA81 has a webber carb, which is an ice maker). Landed in a paddock and went and got the trailer and took it back to the strip.2 - 4. AS above 3 more times while deliberately induced icing to test modifications to carb heat until satisfactory mods were finalised.5. Bent axle from hitting a bump while trailering. Picked up on preflight. Therefore, no flight.6. Points wire arced out on engine mount on full power take-off. Landed straight ahead on strip.7. Fibre-glass "stuffing" got loose when interior of muffler rusted. Reduction in power while in circuit, but landed uneventfully.AS you can see, all of these things are "pissant" incidents, but if they were reported, there would have been 7 more incidents without injury/death. Incidently, 5 out of the 7 would more than likely have caused write off/injury (or worse) in a fixed wing.All the incidents happened in "pre-Net" days, where we had less idea of what people were expecting/doing in respect of reporting/flying.CheersFRed

[welli]

I would be interested to know where these figures came from if possible, please.Another thing that may make the statistics seem lopsided is that the newbie has approx 10 times the accident rate per hour as the low hour pilot, and closer to 100 times the rate as the high hour pilot (up till fairly recently). Thus the newbie reporting considerably more accidents than the high hour pilot is to be expected.

[birdy]

logical init

[welli]

I just wondered if it is from actual Australian statistics as reported to the Operations Manager, or world wide statistics, or as birdy said "logical init ".