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G'Day Youan'sOk I've been putting of this question for quit some time hoping to see my answear appear by magic,well it has'nt so here go's.On the opening page of this forum there is a pic of a gyro with a tall tial and looks like a Subbie motor.What is it?Are ther any plans aval.?More to the point,Can I get more info on the nose gear?It looks like what I need for my gyro inthat it uses some kind of shock absorbing unit.Also the olboy down the road gave me a 1986 subie wagon,it is rusted nearly into but the motor sounds great and only has 84721 miles on it.Would this make a good two seat gyro motor?I don't know what size it is but it has a single carb.and 5speed trans with all the extras,AC,PS and the rest.Thanx in advance Sonny
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sonny,A single carb Subie is a heavy beast for the horse power it produces. Depending on what the altitude is where you live and how heavy your Gyro is will dictate whether the motor would be suitable.you will also need a redrive on the motor otherwise you may as well use a souped up VW motor.(less power but less weight)Although I still havent seen a really succesful one in a gyro.My experience with Gyros has taught me one thing, These beasts need horse power. Gyros are draggy odd shaped machines that dont slip through the air too well.Rotor size, weight, and lack of horse power will combine together to keep you on the ground on those hot humid days and so my adage is " there is no substitute for horse power"If you are going to use a subaru motor in a two seater, do some work on it to hot it up. Or look around for a twin carbie model (already make more power out of the factory)or better still bung, a hairdrier (turbo charger)onto it , but you start to loose reliablity.If you are building a gyro, dont build one with crap, the first expence is the cheapest.Mark.
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G'day MarkThat sounds like sound advice.I realy don't know much about the motor exept that it dose run good,maybe I'll use it for barter or something.It avrages 2500ft ASl and 60% humidity where I live,so it probaly won't fair well.Thanx for the adviceSonny
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There's nothing wrong with an early 1800cc Suby motor. With a re-drive they perform very well. In SA we have numerous members with EA81 Subies both with and with re-drives all perform very well. We even have 1 member with the EA61 1600cc direct drive and this machine flys very well. Several of the re-drive machines (these include the EA82 and the later 2 litre motors) had electronic ignitions, these caused so many problems that most have been converted to a pionts and normally asperated carby system. And all have performed with no problems since.The trend in the Gyro scene lately is for heavier and more complex machines so you have to use bigger and bigger motors. The problem I see is everything that goes up with the Gyro, has to come down with the machine when something goes wrong. Anfd if the machines are getting more complex, there's more chanes of something going wrong. To head off those that will say that if the Gyro is build/designed well nothing will go wrong. All aircraft regardless of the type (fixed wing, rotory etc.) are designed for try and be as survivable as possible in case something goes wrong.I was always taught by my instructors and technical advisors (as I build/designed my own machine) is to keep my Gyro simple. Hence I use an EA81 direct drive. And this mechine plus the EA61 listed above flew very well at Alice Springs at the Nationals last year. Which was at 2500' with an average ambiat temp of 40C each day so the efective air pressure was 6000'.There are numerous examples of EA81 two seaters in both SA and Australia. With and without pods. All fly well. EG http://www.sarotor.org/nationals%202002.shtml the white pod machine is a good example of an EA81 re-drive podded two seater. This machine flys very well. Thuogh it has since been modified in that the perspex sheet has been removed (seen propped up by a pole) and a clear windscreen installed as the mechine gets quite hot inside the cabin in summer. As a partial cabin now it is very comfortable to fly in.So for Mark to say this motor is a heap of crap is the biggest load of bull I've read on the forums yet. Especially to praise up the filthy VWs engines (I admit I don't like VWs).If you are going to build a new machine and you have a viable EA81 motor, don't be put off by someone who seems to not like these motors. Go out and talk to other Gyro people. At the very least I'd strip down the motor and put in new rings and bearings, and if it needs it (very unlikely in such a young - low mileage - motor) I'd have the bore honed. Get rid of the original Hitachi carby and install with the right adaptor a Weber carby.
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Dear rastas,I look forward to watching your machines performance at Cooma, 90 km from where I live.I hope you fly better than you read.Regards Mark
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rsastas,loooookkk ouutt...
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Sonnyj,If you use the ea81 then redrive it. For a few extra $$ initially you won't be disappointed. You get a lot more power = better climb = better everything ... and you won't have to go through the exercise (which you will do) when you decide you've had enough of a straight drive!Yeah i know, there are straight drives out there that don't fly too badly(note BADLY) .... but the redrives fly bloody GOOD !!(note GOOD)Don't take my word on it. Get around and have a look for yourself. ASK OTHERS before you build!!!!
Safe Flying ... ding Insanity is hereditory, you get it from your kids!
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G'Day AllThanx so much for your input.Maybe I won't get rid of it now.The 2 seat vertion is a couple a years down the road,right now I need to finish the little gyro that I'm working on.Rastas thanx for the link,I own a Mac at this time and do anticipate having a Mac attack at some point.So I am looking for ways to resolve this problem before it happens.Rick Whitridge on the "yank" fourm makes a CDI system for the Mac,seems to be all the rage here.I'm probably gonna go with this if I can't find anything else.If its not to personal,how did you come by your handle"Rastas"I Have a 16lbs (6.4 kilo I think)Manx cat that lives with me who's name is Rastas,and he is very cool.[8D].What carb.dose Nick Spehr have on his Mac.I have an old Holly that I'm not real happy with,need to upgrade.If Nick has email I would like to contact him if it's ok.I still would like more info on the gyro on the opening page if some one knows anything about it.Thanx again.Happy flyingSonnyIntelligence is not a privilege,it is a gift and should be used for the good of mankind.
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Sonny, I think that opening page gyro is the webmasters with a Hirth engine, possibly the 110 hp Aussie Paul. [
]www.firebirdgyros.com
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Ozy that would have been very helpfull afew years ago when I was fishing ofshore.[
)]I do see alot of you downuderers fly these engines,so they can't be all bad[
]Thanx Paul maybe he'll see the post and reply,or maybe he's too busy trying to get the Hirth to run.[]Just a joke HOHO HEHE HAHA.Thanx MatesSonnyIntelligence is not a privilege,it is a gift and should be used for the good of mankind.
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DingWhat do you define as BADLY. My machine cruises at 55MPH at 45% throttle and the engine is doing 2800RPM @ 8 Litres/hour. At full throttle it does over 85MPH (my airspeed indicator only goes to 85MPH) and the engine 3400RPM fuel usage unknown as it is very uncomfortable flying at these speeds, so I only do this for a few minutes. I've flown with several other Gyros and my airspeed indicator matchs their instruments. When I'm fooling around with some other of the locals I consume approx 10 litres an hour as I like to keep a little more throttle on.By fooling it could be alleged that we chase each other around at low levels and possibly amungst the shrubbery (you know fun flying). But we're all responsible over here, we just don't do that type of thing (it could be alleged the tongue is firmly in the cheek here).The reduction machines can out climb me but my top speed is usualy better that theirs. For the luxury of this extra climb they burn a minimum of 4 litres/hour more at cruise than me. When we get into the fun flying their fuel usage balloons right out. NOTE before you complain that your machine is better that this, as nearly all my flying has been with the local SA flyiers. so I can only compare performances with machines I've flown with.Unfortunately due to financial and family (bloody families always getting in the way of a good flyin) constraites I can't get to Cooma, which is really annoying me at the moment.SonnyiI've been using the name rastas since I first went on the internet over 17 years ago.
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rastas,sorry bout the delay in answering ...I have to admit the straight drive vw cruises a lot faster than the machines with redrives and 10 litres an hour sounds exceptionally good. My vw - 2100 Aeropower went through about 18 an hour on slow cruise 50-55 knots and like yours could sit on 65 all day. What hp are you running with what prop ?? I had a Jack Allan 54X28 I think and I couldn't get it off the ground, but after putting a Heliptra prop on it didn't fly to badly at all. 3700 full rev's and cruise around 3200 rpm. I like having better climb and that little bit extra behind the power curve with the redrive and of course it's a lot quieter.Oh yes .. in answer to your question regarding BADLY, I was refering to climb out .. Being a beginner I've still got a lot to learn, hope I didn't offend. Can you post a piccie of your machine I'd love to see it as I've still got the vw (in need of a rebuild). Might get a few ideas from you.Safe Flying ... ding Insanity is hereditory, you get it from your kids!
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Sonny, the gyro on the opening page is mine, it has a fuel injected F30E 83hp engine installed swinging a 70inch Powerfin through a 2.64:1 ratio. It is the high torque detuned version of the 110hp ES engine and burns 19 litres per hour. It has a ton of power and on cruise it will hum along at 4800rpm doing 50 knots depending on the conditions. I cannot understand why there are not more over the 110hp version (there are three in the country), it has a VERY flat power curve.Barry Ferguson,ASRA Webmaster
Ph (07)5464-4993Int +61 7 5464-4993
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Barry,One constraint... $$$$$$$$$Cheers,Nick.
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Hello BarryThanx for the engine info,sounds very impresive,I mistook it for a Sub becaouse the pic is kind of blured on my PC.Sorry for the Mixup.What I am interested in though is the nose gear,Could I get a better pic or maybe a drawing?I'd like to use that on the little gyro I am rebuilding.It looks to be just what I need.CheersSonnyIntelligence is not a privilege,it is a gift and should be used for the good of mankind.
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