Tall Tail's

[Brian]

I"m sure I"m stating the bl00dy obvious here, but when the noise stops, there *is* no thrust line, "cause there *is* no thrust!(Except, of course, the violent puckering and un-puckering of the pilot"s sphincter as he considers the hilly, rocky tiger country all around him!)As for dunny doors in use as as tail feathers, has anyone seen this barely airworthy example of Cierva"s legacy:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLiCibFeQPMI"m not sure of anyone else but I have had a number of times the noise has stopped and never has the "sphincter " been subject to " violent puckering". You do simulated engine outs so much during training that when the real thing happens, you just do what you are trained to do and because a gyro can be pretty much dropped in vertically [ under worse case scenario] you dont need a very big spot to save the day.

[quoj]

You do simulated engine outs so much during training that when the real thing happens, you just do what you are trained to do...Yes, I"ve done any number of engine-out simulations in FW aircraft, but the one time the noise did actually stop, my body did the equivalent of having downed 20 cups of coffee laced with industrial-strength laxative!Lucky we were in the circuit and so just modified, and so all was well, but my adrenal glands worked with a mind of their own!

[Brian]

Yes, I"ve done any number of engine-out simulations in FW aircraft, but the one time the noise did actually stop, my body did the equivalent of having downed 20 cups of coffee laced with industrial-strength laxative!Lucky we were in the circuit and so just modified, and so all was well, but my adrenal glands worked with a mind of their own!A engine out in a FW is a really big deal and I would be 200% on the ball as there is so much that can go wrong on the way down. Having said that I have actually enjoyed the few times I have switched off the engine from 10K"s out and glided in to my strip here as it certainly sharpens the judgment.Gyros are a piece of cake, nearly every landing should be at idle so you are basically practicing engine outs on every landing. Because a gyro can stop / land in a matter of a few feet [ zero ground roll when you get it right] nearly any bit of dirt is a good landing spot !!

[aussie_paul]

Any aircraft can PIO with the engine stopped!!!Aussie Paul.

[asra]

I disagree Paul.Firstly I think the phrase should be changed to "Aircraft induced oscillation" or "Thrust line induced oscillation". HTL gyro"s are basically flown with "Pilot induced stability"Take a factory standard RAF for example.Lock the stick at cruise speed and in a short time the airframe will start the rocking all by itself until if left unchecked will tumble. Power pushover.Remove the power and it stops.Take a CLT gyro and do the same.You know the results from your own tests.A Gyro without the engine running doesn"t know or care where the thrust line is,its no longer relevant.The pilot can still over control but not with the disastrous consequences,and in my opinion,not PIO.

[aussie_paul]

Murray you are confusing PIO with PPO. Aussie Paul.

[asra]

No,no confusion here.PIO is the pilot out of phase with the phugoid motion of the(unstable) gyro.Take away the power from an unstable gyro or have CLT and the oscillations wont start.

[Brian]

No,no confusion here.PIO is the pilot out of phase with the phugoid motion of the(unstable) gyro.Take away the power from an unstable gyro or have CLT and the oscillations wont start.Murray, the corrected version of the above is " Take

[asra]

Unfortunately getting your brain tuned to the subtle phugoid motion of an unstable gyro is only something that comes with hours.The most carefull pilot from the best instructor is still up against the eight ball until his brain and reflexes adjust.

[GraemeMonro]

Ah, so that has been my problem, I have had only one of the two requirements working.Graeme.

[aussie_paul]

Sorry Murray. PIO is Pilot Induced Oscillation. You can see Cessna/Piper pilots occasionally PIO during the flare and hold off with the engine idling especially low hour pilots who are not very current. It takes a couple of landings to judge the reaction to their inputs again. A Cessna pilot can PIO when he has the first go at a more sensitive aircraft.Aussie Paul.

[asra]

OK, I thought we were talking gyro"s.The fact remains though,fix the stick in an unstable gyro IE standard RAF, and very soon at the slightest upset it will start oscillating all by itself,no pilot input.The(low hour) pilot only makes it worse by lagging behind with input to the stick,out of phase.

[aussie_paul]

OK, I thought we were talking gyro"s.The fact remains though,fix the stick in an unstable gyro IE standard RAF, and very soon at the slightest upset it will start oscillating all by itself,no pilot input.The(low hour) pilot only makes it worse by lagging behind with input to the stick,out of phase.That was the point I was making Murray.You are correct about gyro stability Mate. Been there done all of that as you said.Aussie Paul.

[mad max]

The only trouble with a very stable Gyro is the experianced pilot falling asleep by being too comfortable. Don"t laugh, it"s happened.