Fix wing ultra light regestrations

[tonydenton]

well now there is some very sensible posts. brian steering the ship as sensible and positive out looking as always.russell, is that really you?? ;D ;Dmiles, i couldn"t agree more.it constantly blows me away as to how helpful board members are. and not getting paid for it either.

[Justin]

Totally agree with you Trent.I was out in the sticks before i moved east.Thats where you do learn to fly in some differant conditions,as far as heat goes.It is so variable,the "bush" pilots out in a single seater fly,n around hurting no 1 in a machine by them selves why would you bother with the rules and regulations.Hey i,m for A.S.RA with the help and comradarity they give us.But when is all the politics and b,s going to stop. Keep it simple and people might be more willing to join and increase numbers again.

[Brian]

Trent, you raise some important points there, the flight manual thing does need to be looked at. I agree there.I will have to check about flight testing. IS that for compliant 2 seaters? Casa has never asked nor would they ever be given the names of a

[WEST OZ FLYER]

Brian the paperwork is straight forward enough even I can manage.The lack of TA"s is a bit of a problem. However the biggest hurdle that I have found is not many have the same opinion. If you ask 4 TA"s the same question you will get the first 3 with different ideas and the fourth that doesn"t appear to have any idea and just goes along with the other 3. When you read through the build standards for a two seat compliant machine for example in regards to the seatbelts. (cut and paste from the manual)D185 Safety Harnesses (a) A full safety harness, that provides two shoulder straps and a lap strap, must be available to each occupant. (b) The strength of the safety harness must not be less than that following from the ultimate loads for the flight and ground load conditions and for the emergency landing conditions according to C100 (b) taking into account the geometry of the harness and seat arrangement. (c) Shoulder harnesses must attach

[chook]

Hi Matthew. I just could not let this one go.The variation in opinion that you are getting from the TA"s will depend on their personality and more importantly how much death and carnarge that they have experienced. Put simply, it is in everyone"s best interest to keep you alive. Just for you I will post never before seen pics of an accident that I had in Nov 1998. I normally don"t leave ANY evidence on the internet but will make an exception for you here.Seatbelts - As you can see I ended up with a broken collar bone and out of action for some time. In the 3rd pic you can see that this particular belt was a 4 point unit secured either side of the seat across the lap and joined together over the shoulders at a common clamp behind the mast. It has been some time since I have viewed these pics and just now for the first time noticed that the left hand side shoulder strap is not tight across my shoulder. Whether or not this was the case on the day of the accident I will never know as it normally fitted correctly. Simply put I was at flying speed and and my undercarriage collected the top wire of a fence that I knew was there. This caused the machine to catapult into the ground and it came to rest on its right side facing towards the direction I had come from. So obviously some significant forces involved.In the first and second pics you can see where the belt restrained me and snapped the bone in doing so.So - *1 -don"t use common automotive strapping - go for the largest stuff you can which is usually associated with motor racing harnesses- this will spread the load. 2-Make certain that all of the connections to the airframe are in shear across the bolts. 3- Make certain that all of your instruments, switches and controls that need to be adjusted in flight can be (ergonomics). 4 - make certain that the belts stay where they are supposed to across your body and reasonably tight. 5 - Use a buckle that can be released with ONE hand (my right one was not working for some reason).Believe me you don"t usually get that much time when the **** is hitting the fan to readjust things.Don"t scrimp on restraints - mine probably saved my life.Regards.......Chook.

[Disco]

West Oz Flyer is pretty right.

[Tsemler]

Trent, you raise some important points there, the flight manual thing does need to be looked at. I agree there.I will have to check about flight testing. IS that for compliant 2 seaters? Yep I really can"t understand the whole needing a flight manual for a basic, For a compliant (2 seater) yeah fair cop, I just checked up on the basic flight testing requirements, yeah pretty basic stuff, takeoff distance, Climb rate, weight limits, Vmin, Vne and max altitude, All stuff we want to discover when just newly built anyways so no biggie.

[tonydenton]

well !!!!! just like the old days.

[Tsemler]

Brian the paperwork is straight forward enough even I can manage.The lack of TA"s is a bit of a problem. However the biggest hurdle that I have found is not many have the same opinion. If you ask 4 TA"s the same question you will get the first 3 with different ideas and the fourth that doesn"t appear to have any idea and just goes along with the other 3. If everyone of them have a differing opinion why not go straight to the Tech manager, since the buck stop thereWhen you read through the build standards for a two seat compliant machine for example in regards to the seatbelts. (cut and paste from the manual)D185 Safety Harnesses (a) A full safety harness, that provides two shoulder straps and a lap strap, must be available to each occupant. (b) The strength of the safety harness must not be less than that following from the ultimate loads for the flight and ground load conditions and for the emergency landing conditions according to C100 (b) taking into account the geometry of the harness and seat arrangement. (c) Shoulder harnesses must attach

[WEST OZ FLYER]

Chook that looks nasty and painful. The seat belts are just an example and I could not agree more with your seat belt points.

[Disco]

Chook that looks nasty and painful. The seat belts are just an example and I could not agree more with your seat belt points.

[Brian]

Sorry, things have got busy here ....again & its late etc but I would like to congratulation everyone on keeping the discussion positive and bring up very good arguments and points in a civil manner. We see all too often good topics degenerate into a rubbish & people get feelings hurt & go off to play ball somewhere else.A couple of quick points, I gather none of you are interested on being on the ASRA board otherwise you would have nominated etc and that I understand but the board does seek people who do have good technical knowledge to be part of groups to discuss stuff similar to whats being discussed here. Being part of these groups does not tie you in to anything, participation is voluntary and all contribution is very much appreciated. I reckon theirs a place or two for some of you to be part of the decision making group so please give it some serious thought !ASRA is concerned about TA"s and they are are under scrutiny cause we are seeing a number of problems happening which we are trying to address. The areas you have bought up are part of that discussion we are having and we have a few ideas that hopefully will assist with getting TA"s on the same page.You are correct Dean, the new generation of gyros has made a manual compulsory reading for the owner /pilot however, for the simple single seater ??? I"m not so sure or if we do need one, it should be much simpler with a template available to adapt [ easily] to your own gyro.Anyway, thanks again for all the great posts, keep it coming please.

[WEST OZ FLYER]

Dean, the flight manual is a very interesting document. It is required even for basic gyros. There are people out there that don"t understand how the figures are derived but they know if the fly with in the parameters they will be safe.Even new instructors are coming through now who have never nursed blades up to flying speed from low RPM or flown anything more conventional than an ELA or similar. Some pilots and instructors that I have spoken to believe that every one should learn to hand start rotor blades in a conventional machine and then get an ELA/MTO/Magni endorsement once you have the rotor management understanding. Not really such a bad idea since then it will be understood why their tails are being chopped off. Rather than a restricted/open license maybe it should be open/need to prerotate endorsement. The blades can still flap on ELA/MTO/Magni on initial take off. I have experienced it first hand and there is a full story dedicated to it in the Winter/Spring 2012 Gyro News. I don"t see the need to rewrite the manual. As you say it is written reasonably well but maybe it is time to update to current standards with more specifics.Brian, count me in. I did stick my hand up for the registrars job when I seen it in the Gyro News. Spoke to Robbo and Paul Campbell numerous times on the phone to see what was involved and the time needed to dedicate to it to be done properly. I have the utmost respect for the job Robbo does. Looks easy on the outside but there is a huge amount of time and effort that goes into that job. I was a little upset that I missed the opportunity to do my part however was very relieved when it went to someone with more free time. Have also thought about the assistant operations manager. However at the time I was finishing off work that I committed to/closing down my business and working a full time. Now that the business is finalised I have just been too slack to do anything more about it.

[Disco]

Matthew,From the guys (nsw instructors) I talk to, I"m pretty sure it"s impossible to teach hand spinning in an ELA etc.

[louww]

Dean, I fully agreed and supported you. I always believe in learning the fundamental and progressing through the stages to have an eventual experiences, especially, with interaction of like minded builders/pilots. That"s where learning experiences become fun. As a saying goes; "you learn to walk before you learn to run".Unless, you"re a genius, these steps maybe overtaken initially but somehow at the later part you"ll still relearn it. Not a bad move! It"s never to late than never.Lou