GYRO INSURANCE and MTO ROTOR BLADES

[Tsemler]

Why do the blades teeter??

[Tsemler]

Ohhh yeah i do like the idea of ASRA Public Liability insurance... hopefully it comes down in price over time...

[asra]

I have just received a message from Mick Post [ the new owner of Auto-Gyro Australia ] and he has advised that the rotor blades displayed in the magazine are in fact not Auto-Gyro blades which may or may not contributed to the bolt hole fractures.Another MTO owner with 620 hours on my machine. Did I read this correctly ... WOT THE - These aren’t even MTO blades ... why are they portrayed as such in the magazine with such a scathing article. Can somebody explain this to me please. It doesn’t read as an article against aluminium rotors as much as a shot against Autogyro.I flew my first solo in a Benson. I was taught rotor management from scratch. You can get anything to auto rotate with a bit of patience from almost no RPM. All you need is wind speed. You just keep teasing the stick back until you feel a bit of shake and then push them forward a couple of inches. Keep doing this with a very gradual increase in speed until they disc. Now you’re ready to spin them right up and fly. If you leave your machine in a paddock without the rotors tethered any slight breeze can start them spinning. Of course it won’t fly - it will probably get thrown on its back. I called my Benson the flying wheel barrow and my instructor ticked me off after my solo and pronounced I should be able to fly anything. (it was a very heavy machine with 23" rotors). He also told me to get out of it before it killed me - so I bought an MTO. I have only 120 hours flight experience so I’m no expert however I’m the best pilot I can be.P.S. Try to learn in different machines (including a glider) they are all the same but completely different.Cheers,Gordon

[RickE]

Im with you Gordon, i appreciate ASRA putting forward information that makes us more vigilant in regard to corrosion, fractures etc but to base the rotor article on misinformation and crucify Autogyro Australia in the process i think was totally unfair.If the article had been of a more generic nature i am sure there would have been far less fuss and the same point could have been made.

[Brian]

As far as I know, the article was based on information from the CAA [The English version of CASA]

[blakemorem]

Chopp
..........

[blakemorem]

Doesn"t matter Chopper CAA or CASA.Same manufacturer same AD apparently.There must be outback operators with in excess of 1000 hrs that could provide hard evidence of extruded alloy rotor blade fatigue life.In fact if we were under CASA we would probably avoid all this ASRA attention.I mean what if we were compliant.

[asra]

http://www.pra.org/publicdl/Engineer..._report_v2.pdf "The constructed spectrum assumed that each flight consisted of 60 repeatsof the worst case manoeuvre loading recorded in the data supplied". In "my" opinion these blades were flogged. Also I make note of the appearance of fretting i.e. the black rubbing mark associated with the crack. I would suggest that this is a warning flag if no crack can be seen.Aslo I note that this data is prelimininary as concluded in the report.This is all my own opinion - Please research this yourselves.Reference:http://www.pra.org/publicdl/Engineer..._report_v2.pdf http://www.auto-gyro.com/chameleon//...1006E.pdfCivil Aviation AuthorityEMERGENCY MANDATORY PERMIT DIRECTIVENumber: 2011-006-EIssue date: 12 July 2011

[Brian]

Doesn"t matter Chopper CAA or CASA.Same manufacturer same AD apparently.There must be outback operators with in excess of 1000 hrs that could provide hard evidence of extruded alloy rotor blade fatigue life.In fact if we were under CASA we would probably avoid all this ASRA attention.I mean what if we were compliant. I know of rotors with 3000 hours plus...same hub bar as well. 27 ft Extruded alloy. My Ricks rotors [ 27 ft] had done approx 2500 hours with no problems. There are probably some operators with over 5,000 hours with the same hub bar as well but no one volunteers too much information unfortunately.

[asra]

Is there a destructive test result for brand new blades? I seem to remember some results somewhere. From what I can tell these tests are done on blades which already show fretting and cracks. My interpretation is the tests are on theoretical creep after the crack appears. Even with the results it indicates another 200 flights with 60 repeats of worst case manoeuvres per flight. That is a lot of punishment on the blades. I would love to know what cracked these blades in the first place. My blades have 620 hours on them with NO indication of fretting. I can" help thinking that some pilots have been abusing their machines and pinning the stuffed blades on the manufacturer. I dont believe there is enough imperical research to support some of the claims. I am also worried that a more important fact may be lost. Whilst we are blaming the engineering and machine we may also be encouraging reckless flying by those who think they now have a bullet proof machine. Maybe the failing blades is a way to wake us up to the fact that gyros do have limitations that we should not challenge. Again my thoughts only.

[asra]

One last thought... I doesn’t take a genius to predict that once these blades and hubs are replaced we will see failing teeter bolts, broken Jesus bolts and twisted masts after the cowboys start hitting their stops in flight, exceeding VNE"s, high G turns, hinging on take off etc. All likely scenarios that could have caused the blade problem in the first place.

[Russell]

Is there a destructive test result for brand new blades? I seem to remember some results somewhere. Destructive tests..............old or new blades.........yea most here have done that test. ( they destruct reeeel good )

[birdy]

I doesn’t take a genius to predict that once ............. Like a week link??The week link is the one on the stick.Theres NO reason for anythn to fail, if the systm is managed properly, from the maker to the flyer.And wots this bout "cowboys"?

[Brian]

There is no doubt that some pilots are incorrectly blaming the manufactuer when in fact the blame lays with the operator. It amazes me that a pilot can hit the ground with their rotors & then say they didnt when the particular even was witnessed