GYRO INSURANCE and MTO ROTOR BLADES

[RickE]

I have just finished reading the latest gyro news and was pleasantly surprised at the information regarding gyro insurance as i have just recently organised this same insurance at a much higher premium. If it proceeds i will definitely be cancelling my current policy and insuring through asra...... Great news.On a more serious note i am a proud owner of a 12 month old MTO Sport and am very concerned about the issues of stress fractures around the rotor blade bolt holes.My gyro has around 170 hours on it and part of the 100 hour service was to check the forementioned holes which i did with Hunter from Autogyro Australia and found no evidence of any stress fractures.The main concern i have is the issue of taxying with stationary rotors as this is the procedure i was trained to do. I can see the point that over rough ground rotors in motion would have more strength but wouldnt that have to be weighed up against the fact that during taxying you might be dealing with an upwind, downwind and crosswind situation which potentially could cause problems.Autogyro"s rotor system 2 has a stepped hub bar which i believe addresses the problem and may be a safety measure that should be reccomended at around the 500 hour mark. As a newcomer to the world of aviation i am interested to hear other peoples opinions on this topic and if the general consensus is that taxying with rotors in motion is a safer method than so be it.

[bones]

Rick, sorry if this seems abit blunt but u haven"t been shown how to taxi with Ur rotors spinning u really should go back nd b*tch slap Ur instructor, nd I am being serious

[RickE]

G,day Bones, rotor management was a pretty important part of my training as after landing i had to taxy with the rotors spinning, stick forward and make sure the rotors were always into the wind to prevent "flapping" etc. I was taught however to stop the rotors spinning as soon as practically possible for safety reasons. The reason i posted the message was to get opinions from pilots with more experience than myself as to whether rotors spinning while taxying is the preferred method or not.I fly around the Newcastle area and the majority of gyros around here seem to operate in a similar fashion to myself and am interested to get other peoples opinions.I appreciate all feedback as i believe it will make me a better pilot.

[blakemorem]

Hey Rick there is some info on MTO rotor Blades at the forum page. Follow the bouncing ball. Gyro plane Brands/MT Gyro plane/ Auto gyro MTO rotor blade/ Warning MT rotor blade By Hunter Jones.There are two good docs there that put you in the picture.I think its been moved by webmaster.Anyway you"ll find it.I don"t know about more experience, but always stick forward especially at 100 RPM and point towards wind.Same rotor management as after landing except washing off rotor speed and break. I haven"t needed to do this as i"m on a bitumen runway and its in Australia...not concrete i must admit.AHHH...those dammed European aircraft on there pathetic concrete runways...LOL... always trouble.This suggestion by Allan Wardell is to introduce centrifugal force on the rotor becoming more rigid if your on a rough runway and reduce sudden downward or upward stress on the rotor blade especially at the outer bolt holes.There is a new replacement option $3200....170 hrs mate there still new.I would not panic as 700 hrs with 150 hr inspection is along way ahead,being aware of unnecessary stress like rough runways hinging or flapping which should always be avoided and flying too slow (excessive coning). And of cause sudden or abrupt stick control like your sticker said in the 2013 rego package.I don"t see a problem with sudden or abrupt stick input...it will take you safely to your point of impact not just in MTO...IN ANY GYRO.And as far as not suitable for mustering with 14-16 deg rotor limit.I flew a tight 360 DEG at 200 mt radius not even close. Ya seen cattle run at 140 Kmph me neither good chance the station manager would tell you to pack up and **** off.>>>Mike.

[Disco]

IMO you miss a fair bit of your important flying training if you learn in a modern two place factory machine only..

[Disco]

You"d get away with it on sealed smooth runway but that"s not the point.

[blakemorem]

Hey Rick n Dean Yeh ok you"re got a point Dean my rotor averages about 320 RPM all relative to air speed and pitch but the slower you go the greater the attack angle on the blades more teetering tell me if I"m wrong.Then add more weight and like two passengers full fuel load and some radical flying or just some high turbulence maybe a of hard landings or two.I appreciate the seriousness and cause of concern of the crack in the rotor but keep everything in perspective including the life of the rotor.Rick as I"ve said you do rotor management every time you land.Only thing i suggest is not continually wind your pre rotator This could cause excessive ware on you"re pre rotator. Maybe wind to 100 RPM let it come back to 50 then wind again keeping in mind you"re engine is only idling while Taxing.Still don"t think it"s necessary on smooth runway.Rough runway yeah.Just common sense you Know the drill don"t anticipate landing fly it on don"t plonk it in look after those rotors.I heard of a set of rotors that did 1100 hrs without a problem so there is a lot to consider.I herd the cracked rotor blade had excessive loading and aggressive flying. Yes do the 150 hr inspection and look after them.The research doc shows the difference in pressures in Mpa between old and new rotors but no car recall Just a discount at end of 700 hr life.But the question is life fatigue and the serious nature of the crack is cause for concern.

[Disco]

Hey Rick n Dean Yeh ok you"re got a point Dean my rotor averages about 320 RPM all relative to air speed and pitch but the slower you go the greater the attack angle on the blades more teetering tell me if I"m wrong.Think of the extreme.... and I"m trying to make you think so think it...

[GraemeMonro]

Hey Rick n Dean Yeh ok you"re got a point Dean my rotor averages about 320 RPM all relative to air speed and pitch but the slower you go the greater the attack angle on the blades more teetering tell me if I"m wrong.Then add more weight and like two passengers full fuel load and some radical flying or just some high turbulence maybe a of hard landings or two.I appreciate the seriousness and cause of concern of the crack in the rotor but keep everything in perspective including the life of the rotor.Rick as I"ve said you do rotor management every time you land.Only thing i suggest is not continually wind your pre rotator This could cause excessive ware on you"re pre rotator. Maybe wind to 100 RPM let it come back to 50 then wind again keeping in mind you"re engine is only idling while Taxing.Still don"t think it"s necessary on smooth runway.Rough runway yeah.Just common sense you Know the drill don"t anticipate landing fly it on don"t plonk it in look after those rotors.I heard of a set of rotors that did 1100 hrs without a problem so there is a lot to consider.I herd the cracked rotor blade had excessive loading and aggressive flying. Yes do the 150 hr inspection and look after them.The research doc shows the difference in pressures in Mpa between old and new rotors but no car recall Just a discount at end of 700 hr life.But the question is life fatigue and the serious nature of the crack is cause for concern.So why are the rotors slowing down? If your taxing even at walking pace they should hold that RPM or even increase in RPM.One of the main reasons we got such large amounts of hours on rotor blades in years gone by is we did not have pre rotators.Graeme.

[Disco]

Graeme.... And people aren"t learning rotor management.

[RickE]

I have just received a message from Mick Post [ the new owner of Auto-Gyro Australia ] and he has advised that the rotor blades displayed in the magazine are in fact not Auto-Gyro blades which may or may not contributed to the bolt hole fractures.Mick is in the process of speaking with the parent company in Germany to hopefully clarify this issue with facts and statistics based on the world wide distribution of the MTO Sport.I feel sure that all of this discussion about rotor blades, management etc will lead to us all being safer in the air.

[Brian]

I see the word "Radical Flying" & I"m not quite sure that involves but it is possible & desirable to be able to look pretty "radical" but yet be smooth on not only the controls but on the throttle as well and have your gyro dancing around the sky.A good example of what I"m talking about is to watch anything you can get hold off showing Birdy or Jacko doing their demos. Most of us cant get close to what they can do in a gyro but they do very impressive manourvers very smoothly. In the motor car racing their is no better example than the late Peter Brock, not only very talented but a

[Brian]

I have just received a message from Mick Post [ the new owner of Auto-Gyro Australia ] and he has advised that the rotor blades displayed in the magazine are in fact not Auto-Gyro blades which may or may not contributed to the bolt hole fractures.Mick is in the process of speaking with the parent company in Germany to hopefully clarify this issue with facts and statistics based on the world wide distribution of the MTO Sport.I feel sure that all of this discussion about rotor blades, management etc will lead to us all being safer in the air. Rick, read the article on the subject by Mark Regan in the latest gyro news.

[Disco]

Radical flying in my post meant... Sharp and sudden stick inputs and loading the blades before they"re ready etc.

[Russell]

So why are the rotors slowing down? If your taxing even at walking pace they should hold that RPM or even increase in RPM.One of the main reasons we got such large amounts of hours on rotor blades in years gone by is we did not have pre rotators.Graeme.