Thinking out loud

[mad max]

Please let me know if I"m talking crap, as I"ve had three small bottles of my home brew and three small glasses of red wine, but I think we are becoming infected by the American liability disease. If Instructors are at risk of being sued if a student stuffs up (even years after training)

[adrian_clince]

hi max - im not sure if your talking crap or not - im just an observant pilot take things as they come kinda guy -instructors being sued? - i would think as aviation stands flying is a dangerous sport -or job - or commercial industry - why would instructors be sued - if the solo pilot is confidant to preform a solo flight in front of the instructor for 15 - 20 plus hours training

[Disco]

I wonder about all this lots too.

[asra]

As far as Im aware in Australia you can"t sign away your rights,IE with an Indemnity form. It may slow things down a bit but if you,as a pilot,have done something grossly negligent and caused death or injury, then why shouldnt a deceaced"s family, or you having ended up in a wheelchair, Sue?ASRA has recently gone through a very ugly Coroners Court case where a gyro was sold to a person who was subsiquently killed the first time he started the engine.Niether the buyer or the seller were members of ASRA,the gyro unregisterd,the ex ASRA instructor kept no personal logbook, no gyro logbook,or maitenance records.I imagine this will end up in a civil court,depending on the findings of the Coroner.The moral of the story I guess is,if the proverbial do"es hit the fan,you will be far better off and protected if you are seen to be doing the right thing to begin with.This includes keeping detailed pilot log books,aircraft log book and aircraft stamped and approved flight manual. All reqiured by CASA and ASRA.

[mad max]

Looks like I"m going to become a squeaky clean meticulous paper work fanatic as part of my survival! Any-one who rides in my gyro signs my own personal waiver form. Hopefully that will add a bit more protection. I think Cough Whitlam tried to bring out the NZ system and look what happened to him.

[birdy]

I tell people out ere, that if I hear them so much as mumble that 4 letter word, it will be with their last breath.

[Rastus]

Public Liability is in the area of civil law and not criminal law.If you do some thing that is not legal then no disclaimer will protect you in any jurisdiction.However when you are being sued, effectively you are guilty and need to prove you "innocence" which is nearly impossible to do, then you need to have your actions/inactions interpreted by someone who has little if any practical knowledge of your activities and why they are performed. In a nut shell you are up that well known creek without a paddle.What I am and most of my professional colleagues have done through our accountants and solicitors is set ourselves up as "men of straw", a legal term where we do not own anything however maintain control of everything. This will cost you in the area of about $10k to set up and don"t do it yourself. Trusts no longer offer adequate protection.If someone decides to initiate a civil action against me their solicitor is legally required to ascertain my assets. When they find out I have no assets (in my legal name) although I live in a very nice house, have a good car/boat/plane etc then they ask their client to pay upfront because they know that even thought I might eventually have a judgement against me there are no assets to take from me to cover costs etc. Therefore it will cost their client in excess of $100k to sue me with zero possibility of recuperating any costs what so ever. For what it is worth!!!There are scum bags out there who are constantly looking for soft targets. As a "man of straw" I am no longer a target

[aussie_paul]

Rastus, I had myself protected by not having any assets in my name, less worry if/when things go wrong. The family of my student tried to sue me but to no avail. It was unfortunate for them AND me that the insurer my partners used went belly up after they got the hull insurance, AND before the students family and I who were insured got paid. My wife, Eril, was told that I was not insured!!!! The offshore insurance company was from NZ. Around 3 months after my accident the govt changed the rules so that offshore insurance companies had to have a slush fund of money in Oz to be able to do business here. Missed by 3 months!!!! If Eril had not been given incorrect info I would, and the students family would have received some insurance money.Aussie Paul.

[Justin]

Be like me fella"s got noth"n,worth noth"n.Can"t get blood from a stone????? Don"t know what would happen if some 1 sued me.What happens if some 1 has noth"n in a situation like this???

[Disco]

Does the $400 instructor insurance protect us?

[mad max]

Looks like I personally have two choices: Give away instructing or spend 10k and sign all my assets to my wife -- Then some law could come out over-riding the document and my wife could run away and leave me cleaning boots outside woolworths. (and sleeping in the long grass) :"(

[Bill Cross]

Have a look at the RAA Sport Pilot Magazine issue 25 (7) in July 2013 about a similar case. Working of my phone so can"t scan or copy but someone may be able to pass on the info. Ruling went in favour of the instructor. Have a look at Campbell vs Hay in the Lower Court of NSW.