GYROPLANE CONTRACT MUSTERING - NOTICE TO ALL MEMBERS

[Disco]

The man does make a good point.

[Brian]

Spose that bloke needs to have one of them........, wotchcallit, .......lisence thingys?I have no idea at this stage Birdy & but the LSH isnt going to advance too far without an ops manager who knows there ins & outs.

[birdy]

Not that it matters Brian, ill be join,n Aggro.

[MadMuz]

I must admit, that old saying about "let sleeping dogs laye" does tend to spring to mind, along with a few larm bells after reading the reply letter in GN.....

[Brian]

Thing is, you are dammed if you do & dammed if you dont !Whilst I take on all points including letting " sleeping dogs lay" there are other arguments & one of them is allowing people to legally use a service without fear of incrimination or litigation should something go pear shape.Like it or not, we see people using litigation way too commonly & even the places we usually associate with being away from eyes & ears are decreasing all the time couretsy of social media / phone cameras etc etc

[MadMuz]

Touche chopper, I totally agree, however, that response letter in GN shows that they would like ASRA to hand over anyone not complying so they can be prosecuted, as opposed to any actual interest in assisting to modify the regulations, does worry me somewhat. :-X

[Brian]

That line is one thats been peddled around for many years Muz & something casa knows asra isnt going to do. Thing is casa has it hands full or more than full with the advent of UAV"s. These things are possibly going to change quite a bit of our lives & privacy as induviduals / organizations etc etc start using these things for their induvidual purposes, legal & illegal.

[tonydenton]

I"m starting to worry about the numbers of times I"m agreeing with you mad muzz. . yes asra must have worked harder than one could ever imagined to get to this point and full credit to the board. it does seem to have come about rather quickly thou, after

[MadMuz]

Thanks Tony (I"ll slip you that $20 for the compliment) :-*Agree totally Tony and Chopper, however it would be a terrible outcome if the exec are backed into a corner and have to hand over a complete list of "offenders" to allow for their prosecution, when that is the last thing the hard working individuals of the exec would want to do.... I am with you, I haven"t and wont muster, but am all for the guys who want to and firmly believe they should be allowed to, if they so wish.If a person buys a dirt bike, does he/she have to have a "commercial motorcycle license" to be allowed to round up moos? If they muster on horseback, do they have to get a "commercial donkey license"? I don"t think so? You need to move som moos, you should be able to rent the pied piper if you want? ???

[Brian]

1. asra will not have a list of " offenders" !! If what we have proposed gets up, it will be up to induviduals to apply / join. To all & sundry, these applicants have a clean sheet of paper.While asra has the likes of Allan, Mark, Dr Paul etc, asra has the ability to match casa.Its a big statement I know but the asra board will not release any names, even if we had them, of anyone conducting certain activities.

[bosca]

Just remember that governments and the public servants don"t care about you. They just want control through legislation and do almost anything to get it, Look at America and the UK, both are almost a police state.

[MadMuz]

Yes, and not to mention we have our own version of hitler running the country : (ok, well, a comic version)

[Mark Horan]

Hi everyone,I have just come back from the NSW Farmers conference and have been returned as the Senior Vice President for my third year.Gyro mustering, I believe has some pretty good support out there in Agri land mainly because of the cost savings to producers over Helo operators doing the same thing.I talk with lots of cockies and there are some who like Gyro"s and some who prefer Helo operators, I think it comes down to the pilot and how well they do their job.At the moment, Helo"s are legal and Gyro"s are where they are. It doesnt really matter what we as gyronaughts think, it is the support from industry that will get us over the line or not. If there is some regulation over how gyro"s operate in commercial activities, it is a good thing for the rest of us, we all have to operate to a standard anyway.Asra has done a pretty good job of ridding us all of the Cowboy image in aviation circles and support for legitimate commercial operations will improve the perception of how we all operate as sport pilots, which will give us certainty into the future.As far as regulation for commercial operators is concerned, I think is a good thing. The myriad of legislation over animal welfare, environment and anything else the do gooders are sticking into farmers now days, means that every ancillary contractor that supplies services to agriculture has to fall into line as well. gyro mustering will have to come to the same standards as everyone else.I am not saying that I LIKE regulation, but it is a fact of life and if you want to participate, tow the line!The other thing that we should all remember is that gyro mustering isnt just a good excuse to go for a fly and look at the landscape, it is work and the guys on the ground are relying on the gryo to get the cattle up to where they can be put in the yards, so it is helpful if the guy in the air is a better stockman than he is a pilot.I have plenty of friends from the city want to help me bring stock up to my yards on motorbikes and you can always bet they will be in the wrong place at the wrong time, everytime!For those worried about Asra having to hand over anyones names, there are plenty of other things to keep you awake at night. There is only an interest in gaining submissions for the validity of Gyroplanes in mustering operations, nothing else that I am aware of.I think there is a fair way to go before gyros get the nod for commercial operations and there will have to be lots of cooperation between Asra and industry to get it across the line, but when it does, it will open up a lot more opportunities for gyro"s in commercial operations, a good thing for all of us.Regards,Mark.

[JAL]

Its tough one. The existing operators will have a say and given the amount of capital tied up in getting a certified business off the ground under the current rules they will certainly be defending their own self interest and will try very hard to stop any rule change that devalues that investment overnight. Just playing devils advocate here but if the shoe is on the other foot you would also see any change in the current rules to allow gyros as unfair and unwarranted.The use of drones will be interesting as the technology is advancing really quickly and remote controlled helicopters might be viable within 10 years. A mustering operation in the future might see a truck role up to the homestead with the receiver and pilot controls in the back with a small unmanned helicopter. The communications dish is raised the pilot puts on his 3d goggles and flies the heli like he would normally but is located in the back of the air-conditioned truck and operate the heli within 100km radius of the truck and has autonomous return and home and takeoff & landings. The technology is available now its just that the set up price is more than a Robbie 22, in 5 years time it will be the same cost and 10 years time it will much cheaper. The agri business owners given that it would cost the same or even a bit less to have unmanned helis instead of piloted ones will go with the unmanned as there will be no risk of pilot being killed unless he chokes on his mars bar or gets bitten by a snake.The aerial survey business is already about to lose to drones. Completely autonomous operations including takeoff and landings with pre - programmed flight lines is already well advanced and the technology is now available off the shelf and can either be installed in existing piloted aircraft or specifically designed aircraft that do not need to be certified so it a lot cheaper than new or even used aircraft. The next will be aerial applicators then it will be fully remote controlled aircraft suitable for things like mustering similar to how the military drones are operated now by having a real time feed back to a pilot that makes the decisions but the flying taking care of by the drone. For aerial survey and application one pilot might be able to control several aircraft at once. It might be why CASA are talking, they probably see drones taking over within a decade for many of the commercial GA roles and they will be need to have a much broader base or there will be some big changes in the way CASA is run i.e jobs are on the line there as well if the drone revolution comes to fruition and there is not enough competition from competing alternatives. That is the one advantage of a gyro has it will compete commercially with drone operators for many years to come the same cannot be said for the existing heli operators unless they embrace the new technology

[tonydenton]

I do fear for my childrens children.