Modifications requiring TA inspection.

[WEST OZ FLYER]

When is a TA needed for inspection of a flying registered machine? Is there a guide what modifications you can do?

[gyroo]

Hi Matthew,This is a really excellent question. TAs are widely spread around Australia, but many people still have to travel enormous distances to take their machine to the TA for looking over. At the moment, the key points in time when ASRA requires a TA"s certification are: (1) the pre-initial registration inspection and sign-off phase, (2) after a rebuild after an incident or accident as significant as a tipover, and (3) after the transfer of registration to a new owner/operator.Points 1 and 2 (above) are self-explanatory, but point 3 needs a little elaboration. Have a look at ASRA Form F006 - you"ll see that when a gyro is sold within ASRA that a Form F006 needs to be countersigned by an ASRA TA. The F006 has a list of features and characteristics that need to be listed by the new owner, and most importantly requires the gyro to be hang tested. There have been instances where a gyro set up for a lightweight pilot has been sold to a heavyweight pilot who has jumped on without checking the weight and balance and found themselves wheelbarrowing along the runway then flying very nose-down when the gyro flew off. This is a potentially dangerous situation because the remaining amount of backstick travel left is very small, and a flare might not be possible.In this lightweight to heavyweight pilot scenario, ASRA expects that a new set of cheek plates will be fabricated to shift the rotor head further forward, so that the gyro will hang normally with the heavyweight pilot stapped in.The Technical Manual coming out in 2015 will impose an additional requirement at transfer, namely a tiltback test and plotting of the CofG to thrustline relationship. This is so that our Technical Records will be as up-to-date as practicable. In case of fatal accidents it is now normal to include such information in reports to Coroners.However, your query is really concentrating on the issue of what sorts of things can a gyro owner do? The answer is practically everything - gyros are the least restricted of all recreational aircraft, in terms of what an owner can do by way of changes and modification. We can swap rotor, props, engines, seat tanks, control rods, control cables, VS and rudder, HS, electrical wiring, we can swap out the old mast for a new one, and so forth.The 2015 Technical Manual has a chapter on post-accident repair and inspection. This is possibly quite a problem area, because when a gyro tips over the rotors are destroyed, the rotor hub bearing is likely to suffer brinelling, the prop likely to be damaged, mast and/or keel twisted or bent, the engine or re-drive possibly damaged, and control rods and hub-tilting components may look OK but may harbour microscopic cracks, etc, etc.It is a current ASRA requirement that control rod spherical rod ends be replaced after a tipover or accident where the frame has suffered a severe shock. Usually the control rods are bent and/or kinked as well. One huge area of concern with pump sticks that have been through a tipover is whether the L-angle brackets that the pitch and roll pivot block attach to aren"t microscopically cracked. Cracking is also easily possible in the horizontal part of a pump stick, just as it emerges from the clamps and clamping plates above the pitch and roll pivot block. With Brock sticks that have been through a tipover, the bottom 3 to 4 inches of the control stick should be especially carefully examined and checked (or even the stick fully replaced). ASRA has a number of recorded instances of control sticks cracking circumferentially down at the bottom where the stick shaft emerges from its clamping brackets or saddles/blocks. There are even recorded instances of control sticks breaking off completely where the shaft emerges from its supporting clamps or blocks, but luckily all these have occurred on the ground or on the runway or airborne just above the runway. The torque tube/bar trim springs cause a real lot of force being needed to push the stick fully forward when the rotor is not producing any lift on the ground and this is suspected to be contributory to the known incidence of control stick cracking and breakage.I could go on and on, but I hope this assists you with your query.Mark ReganMelboune

[WEST OZ FLYER]

Hi Mark, thanks for the reply.However, your query is really concentrating on the issue of what sorts of things can a gyro owner do? Not so much as what the can be done but what mods can/cannot be done without a TA inspection. From reading what you have posted I can replace/change anything and everything as long as they are not accident damaged and not need a TA inspection? For example I could go from the Rossco bench seat with Jerry cans to Goodwin seat tanks or from Subaru ea81 to rotax 912 and not need a TA inspection so long as the hang test was within ASRA limits and has good workmanship? Regards Matthew

[gyroo]

That"s correct Matthew.The placard "Neither CASA nor the ASRA guarantee the airworthiness of this aircraft" is really a statement of the common law principle that people are free to voluntarily assume quite high levels of risk in their chosen recreational activity provided they don"t overly endanger themselves and especially that they don"t expose 3rd parties (trusting passengers) to even moderate levels of risk. Accordingly, the Technical Manual particularly emphasizes the need that 2 seaters are to be engineered, constructed and maintained to very high standards. But, consistent with the principle of voluntary assumption of risk, where single seaters are concerned, ASRA needs to back away quite a bit and give single seater owners as much freedom and flexibility for tinkering and experimenting as is reasonable in this litigious age. In other words, the single seat gyro owner/pilot is only potentially endangering himself with any changes and modifications. Provided those modifications are not obviously dangerous, provided they don"t throw out the weight and balance, and provided the workmanship and construction are to the highest standard reasonably expected of an amateur constructor, then the owner/pilot is free - and indeed encouraged - to responsibly experiment. That"s really the only way our machines will advance.Obviously some modifications will be highly successful, others less so. One of my aspirations as Tech Manager is to consistently encourage people to build to the highest reasonably attainable standard. "Roughies" really don"t have much of a place in our fleet any more given that good quality machine tools and reasonable quality Chinese hand tools are now freely available at very significantly lower prices than 20 years ago. So, all I ask and encourage is whatever modifications you do, are done to very high standards of workmanship, and that a lot of forethought and thinking and planning goes into whatever you are doing before any metal is actually cut. Happy experimenting.Mark R

[MadMuz]

Treat every modification as if your life depends on it.....Because it probably does

[maulonir]

[tonydenton]

hello everyone, this is yet another good post, I like when mark is putting his view and the rules

[gyroo]

Well spotted, Rob,Where section 5.11 causes lots of problems in interpretation are the phrases "the aircraft manufacturer" and "a specialist for that or a similar type of aircraft". This causes huge problems with gyros that have been sold through 5 owners, each of whom has tinkered here and there. And, the phrase "a specialist for that or a similar type of aircraft" is quite meaningless because we don"t have any such scheme accrediting people for being "specialists" on particular configurations.So, while Section 5.11 arguably IS readily applicable to European imports where the machines have a readily identifiable "aircraft manufacturer", where second and third and fourth hand homebuilts are concerned it becomes almost impossible to apply sensibly.Section 5.11 will be overtaken by the new technical manual from about mid 2015.For the time being, I suggest that owners of commercially manufactured gyros comply with Section 5.11 completely, and the owners of second hand homebuilts comply with Section 5.11 so far as the registration and transfer of registration requirements as shown in the F006 are concerned. Use the F006 as you primary reference.Cheers,Mark Regan

[WEST OZ FLYER]

Thanks Rob that is awesome. So Mark if I go from Subaru to Rotax 912, bench seat to seat tank using a rossco mount and pump stick to Rossco"s bell crank controls on my side by side Rossco I don"t need a TA inspection because they are already fitted to or made for a Rossco machine? To my thinking if Rossco makes them and sells them for Rossco machines and others then they are certified? It"s not doing anything out of the ordinary just upgrading to a newer, better style machine. That brings me to another point. If I was to do these mods do I have to fly the 25hrs or do they come under "history of safe operation" because there a many others flying in this configuration. Cheers Matthew

[gyroo]

Hi Matthew,The major surgery that you are proposing to do is all stuff that you can do yourself, but - given that you are over in the West - I really strongly suggest that you start a dialogue with Adran Stoffells (who is a TA). The reason why I recommend you do this is that there"s nothing Adrian doesn"t know about the technical aspects of gyros (he"s a former Technical manager, and widely experienced in GA, recreational and even military aviation).He will guide you through the process of rebuilding. The "surgery" you are proposing appears to be so major that in my view as a matter of common sense and prudence I strongly suggest that you get advice from him during your rebuilding process, and then I also strongly suggest that you take your finished creation to Adrian so that he can have a good look over it once all the modifications are complete.In this day and age people search for written procedures and protocols, and I commend both you and Rob for taking the time to ask questions on this forum so that you can better understand the sorts of technical things you guys can and cannot do. However, while there is no ASRA Technical Manual published yet, I suggest that you can get 90% along the track just using a good dose of common sense and getting under the wing of experienced members. And, again, I stress the need for really high quality workmanship.Your changes are so major that you"ll definitely need to do a hang test and a tilt back test before you resume flying it, and the engine change may well necessitate you making a new set of cheek plates at the head so that the new - possibly lightened - gyro will still hang properly.Cheers,Mark ReganMelbourne

[gyroo]

hello everyone, this is yet another good post, I like when mark is putting his view and the rules

[Brian]

Talking about TA"s / instructors / builders, why they can or cannot sing off stuff. Going back a few years ago, we had the scenario of a TA building the gyro, selling it & instructing the new owner & signing it all off. All well & good until the new owner crashed & died on the way home. Despite the fact that all the I"s & T;s being dotted & the instructor/ builder / TA being off the highest repute didnt stop him from getting a pretty dificult time & the coroner made it clear to ASRA that the practice was unaccptable.There usually is an underlying reason why the rules are as they are.

[tonydenton]

so just taking the post off on a tangent again of getting instructers needing to fly a newbe"s machine before he goes solo then the T.A. needs to check it out [ all the hang tests etc ] and some one flys it , the instructor if not being a T.A. and the T.A. not knowing the capabilities of the new student , I always think while at airports seeing plans land and

[blakemorem]

Yep not a good feeling when you are about to embark on a 24 Hr flight across water with full fuel load 240 passengers all that luggage loaded into a 90 Tonne 4 burner. You see the pilot spin a fan or two then distracted by ground crew throwing your precious bag with such precision it hits the side of the cargo door and bounces back onto the tarmac. Now the pilot has kicked some wheels he seems satisfied it"s all good considering the fact the plane has just completed a lengthy flight if there were any problems it will be in the flight log...right. You know...paperwork...that stuff that can trace liability to some poor unsuspecting sacrificial goat...you know the one with a few days before long service leave...perfect.We can blame him because he finished his shift before the inspection was completed and signed off. Not because of the fact that we didn"t have the money or time. Except the left center exit door above wing the ground crew have been wrestling with for the last 10 minutes. Now they have their shoulder into it shoving pushing winding the handle clockwise, anticlockwise, another shoulder charge,and a shove winding handle clockwise, Christ those latches are really getting a flogging, wonder how many times that"s happened, hope they got it, don"t really want that to blow out at 40 thousand. Of course the pilot didn"t see that as he"s over the other side kicking wheels. Good to check others work even to witness and sign off. Instructor pilot TA rated and another to TA check his work and sign off. Those factors Like Time, Money, Fatigue, or even distraction can molest you when your not on your watch.

[tonydenton]

I was thinking something like did the controls need tensioning, but now that you mentioned it,