Seat Belts

[MadMuz]

I just recently bought (off ebay

[maulonir]

Muz,Where did this information come from that there is a 10 year age limit on harnesses?Rob

[MadMuz]

From Adrian S at Wondai. You have to look for the date tag of manufacturer on the seatbelt and if it is 10 years from manufacture, it has to be replaced.

[WEST OZ FLYER]

Hi Mad Muz, there is nothing written down regarding the age of a seatbelt. Doesn"t even say that you can"t use Chinese harnesses. Only states the preferred mounting. When I look at my Rossco upper seatbelt mounts I just shake my head in disbelief. A twenty year old seatbelt will stronger than that 25x25x3mm alloy square.(provided they are not sun damaged or frayed ). This technical manual that comes out will be a really good thing as everyone will be on the same up to date page. Been through this one too!This is from the construction manualD185 Safety Harnesses (a) A full safety harness, that provides two shoulder straps and a lap strap, must be available to each occupant. (b) The strength of the safety harness must not be less than that following from the ultimate loads for the flight and ground load conditions and for the emergency landing conditions according to C100 (b) taking into account the geometry of the harness and seat arrangement. (c) Shoulder harnesses must attach at a point on the airframe that would not be likely to depart the airframe forcibly upon a crash or result in ancillary occupant injury such as spinal compression. (d) Each safety harness must be attached so that the wearer is safely retained in the initial sitting position under flight and emergency landing accelerations. Upwards….4.5 G Forwards….9 G Sideways….3 G Downwards.4.5 GSee Figures 1, 2 and 3. (These are the installation diagrams.)Here is an AD on safety harnesses.AIRWORTHINESS ALERT AA 2006.01 Safety Harness Attachment Background The investigation into a recent fatal gyroplane accident revealed that the lap portion of the pilots safety harness was attached to a section of angle aluminium which in turn was attached to a piece of flat aluminium approximately 300 mm long by 50 mm wide by 3 mm thick. This was fitted on top of the seat-mounting frame and was held in position by the bolts that secured the seat tank to the mounting frame. The accident resulted in the seat tank with the pilot attached being ejected from the wreckage. The opinion of the investigators was that had the lap belt been attached to the airframe in a normal manner, the pilot may have survived. Recommendation It is strongly recommended that pilots and owners inspect the safety harness attachment method and ascertain that the attachment points of the harness are securely mounted to the mast, the keel or lower cluster plates of the gyroplane, or to brackets or mountings directly attached to mast, keel or lower cluster plates, and capable of withstanding a force of :- Upwards….4.5 G Forwards….9 G Sideways….3 G Downwards.4.5 G Where there is doubt as to the integrity of the attachment method, the gyroplane should be grounded until an ASRA Technical Adviser (TA) has been consulted. Where the gyroplane is located in an area where access to a TA is not readily available, the ASRA Technical Manager or ASRA Operations Manager should be consulted before further operations. Allan Wardill Operations Manager Seatbelts are like helmets, what is your protection worth.Regards Matthew

[MadMuz]

Bugga, I guess I should have checked before sending them back

[gyroo]

Hi guys,A 10 year replacement requirement has been imposed by Cessna for the past 20 years or so, and in consumer law manufacturers of automotive seat belts assume no liability whatsoever for seat belts over 10 years old, so I guess that might be where Adrian has the 10 year idea from. I haven"t been able to find any current ASRA documentation or technical resolutions requiring retirement and replacement of gyroplane seat belts after 10 years. I simply can"t say whether it was ever an ASRA requirement at some time in the past (although I"ve been a member since 1989), but I can"t find any current reference to a 10 year retirement for seat belts. The new draft unpublished Technical Manual simply specifies "on condition", with defects such as sunlight fading, softening of the weave and dulling of the weave sheen (symptomatic of moisture degradation), excessive edge curling, weave cuts and lacerations, fraying and edge defects, as all being defects that will necessitate replacement, no matter how "young" or how old the belt is. Also, any seat belt that restrained an occupant during a tip-over accident will be required to be replaced.While on the topic of replacement of components, it probably is a good rule of thumb anyway that people from time to time take a really good look at any components on their gyros that are likely to suffer age degradation, such as seat belts, v-belts, cog belts, tyres, wiring, seals, and gaskets.Mark ReganMelbourne

[MadMuz]

Woops, I might have to get someone else to "re-get" them for me

[chook]

Murray the esteemed Adrian is somewhere between England and Oshkosh at the moment so expect a delay.2 years ago I replaced my seat belts and recall him mentioning the 10 year rule at that time.I also recall him being specific about brands but I am vague about the specifics. At the time the CAMS people (motor sports) were modifying their rules about 3 point and 4 point harnesses and there was discounting going on.Regards.....Chook.

[WEST OZ FLYER]

I spoke to Rossco in regards to this a few years ago. Him and four or five others wrote the rule book and it was mentioned to me the only information was section D185 of the construction manual. I know the full history of my seatbelts and are happy to use them although they are six years old. However I am with Adrian on this and do believe that there should be an age limit on belts and also be mandatory that 3" wide straps and a four point harness minimum be used. Regards Matthew

[blakemorem]

In the rigging equipment industry we have a date of manufacture, 10 year expiry date,safe working load limits,serial# and manufacturer, in service date, 3 month inspection logged date, removal from service date, industry advisory mandates etc. Why... because your life depends on it every day. We can introduce equipment into our kit as long as it has a label attached with in service date, inspection pass date, serial#, SWLL, and logged in our equipment log. No label and it"s out. We also can"t sign off our equipment, we can do the inspection but has to be signed off by another certified rigger Like TA"s signing off another TA"s inspection. If at any time we find frays, rust, things that don"t open or close properly.Some things only require a little love juice,TLC etc or removed from service. Seat belts and buckles inspected periodically, logged, dated signed by TA. labeled,manufacture,serial #, date in service. If not sure about the quality (Chinese) maybe a spare one for some destructive testing. See if it can handle 6.5 Kn,put a fat crash dummy in it attach it to a 10 Tonne SWLL kermantle rope and throw it from a great height. I recon some seat belts would not pass the test. I also believe that if the product is new and inspected it would be satisfactory to allow a 10 year expiry after the date of in service providing it is labeled appropriately and TA passed periodically inspection logged. Sounds like another AD... anyway...oh is that the time...look the plane the plane...adios amigos...Yeehaaaar.

[gyroo]

Well, gentlemen,I"m more than willing to recommend to the Board to impose a 10 year life - IF that"s what you all want it!!!!

[gyroo]

THE DOCTRINE OF PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY (or in other words, assume responsibility yourself - don"t expect TAs to be policemen)At the moment the only times it is compulsory to involve a TA are during the pre-registration inspection, after change of ownership and after a rebuild following something like a tipover. I am not going to have TAs driving long distances, or owners driving long distances to a TA, simply to look at a set of seat belts.

[Tsemler]

Wow i was starting to think ASRA was going to go crazy with bullshit rules for a second... One day if/when gyroplanes can be used commercially let the bullshit rules begin then!

[birdy]

Well, mine are over 15yo, but since i dont use them, are they still "as new"?

[aussie_paul]

Well, gentlemen,[b]That"s why I generally hate "roughies" so much, because a roughie is more than likely symptomatic of a "she"ll be right" mindset, or "near enough is good enough".