Jabiru engines on the brink ??

[Russell]

Casa
..........

[Disco]

I remember having a few beers with a guy who sells a cooling system for the Jab at Temora NatFly a couple of years ago so there have been so called fixes available.

[MadMuz]

I saw this link on another forum, it seems to be a draught, for now? Will prolly know more after 20/11/14..... not goodhttp://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/newrules/download/spc-cd1425ss.pdf

[gyroo]

Yeah - this has been brewing for a while.The Rotec water cooled heads aftermarket "fix" apparently cuts the likelihood of an engine-out event very significantly.I"m not sure that it will be enough for CASA though. That bad stats have been rising steadily, which is a shame because the Jab has been so successful for so long.Mark R

[MadMuz]

Its pretty sad really, such a neat little plane..... can they be fitted with rotax 4 bangers? I went to their factory in about 1998 when they were just getting started, or hadn"t been started long at least

[Russell]

Yes Rotax can be fitted......to certain models only, changeover around $40k.....phew I hear.The paper work is mind blowing.......it"s a hard task to achieve. If....your jab is factory built and type certified .....Forget it.Some late news......there is possibly a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel......let"s see what transpires. I own a J160C

[Russell]

Recreational Aviation Australia (RA-Aus) met with Jabiru and CASA today (14 November 2014) in relation to the recent proposed actions by CASA that would affect owners and operators of Jabiru aircraft and Jabiru powered aircraft.RA-Aus maintains its stance that the available data suggests that Jabiru engines are more likely to fail than a comparable 4 stroke Rotax engine but insists that our operators should be free to exercise their informed judgement and assess the risks for themselves. We also question whether the CASA proposed remedies are the best action to take given the risks posed.RA-Aus feels that the meeting was constructive and has outlined a way for Jabiru and CASA to address the risks highlighted by CASA in a manner that will minimise the imposition on aircraft operations. Jabiru and CASA have committed to working together to arrive at a solution.In the meantime RA-Aus once again encourages all affected stakeholders to contact CASA with their views on the proposed restrictions and to engage with other appropriate parties to escalate their concerns if they wish to.As per our earlier advice the relevant contacts are:The Minister for Transport, the Hon Warren Truss, W.Truss.MP@aph.gov.auYour local federal member details can be found at www.aph.gov.au with state and local details available at the relevant government website.Lee Ungermann of the SASAO office within CASA can be contacted at lee.ungermann@casa.gov.auPlease include admin@raa.asn.au on all correspondence to CASA and members of parliament.Reported data for 2014 year to date (January through October) Jabiru Rotax All (includes other engine types) Hours flown 41834 71626 131227 Landings 92735 145638 260383 Engine failures (full or partial) 28 16 51

[tonydenton]

just sitting on the side line here but that seems a lot of rotax engine failures either partial or full. I always think of the 4 stroke engines but would that be some 2 stroke rotax then in smaller planes ?????

[MadMuz]

If the issues are the heads and valves suffering from overheating, wouldn"t those water cooled heads and extreme duty (best quality) valves not be a reasonable step towards a fix? Surely if someone else other than Jabaru can make watercooled heads, then surely Jabaru could persue the same avenue themselves?That little Russ-aru you have Russ is a great little machine...... hopefully a suitable fix can be found quickly....

[tonydenton]

I don"t think " could persue " is in their language skills from what I"ve heard. there are lots of people getting burned at the moment and for a while. I"m happy to say the owners of the engine building factory are very good friends of mine and an absolutely lovely couple to know . PERSONALLY THEY HAVE MY FULL RESPECT . they are well respected in town by everyone too that they know and deal with. remembering they have to build to "contracted engine design and specifications".

[gyroo]

Hi Tony - from what I can see I think the word "burned" is appropriate, but I don"t mean that financially - I mean exhaust overheating problems with the air cooled head.Check out this link:

[gyroo]

Hi all,the other comment that I"ll make is that we all probably know that it takes an enormous amount of money, time and effort to get any product into the marketplace.After having done all that, manufacturers are often especially reluctant to implement substantial changes to their product out of fear that courts will identify any such change as a tacit admission that the initial product was defective in some way.The way car manufacturers have largely sidestepped this issue is by regularly introducing newer models where their launches can be associated with lots of hoopla, where the obvious cosmetic changes are accentuated and hyped, but where even very substantial (even critical) engineering mods can sometimes be buried deep inside and not mentioned so as to NOT highlight the shortcomings of the earlier models! Sneaky. There"s a whole sub-species of bottom-dwelling corporate lawyers who make careers out of devising such devious smoke and mirrors strategies. With aircraft, unfortunately, because designs like Jabirus have been put forward for "certification", it makes it very much harder for an aircraft manufacturer to steadily introduce newer models with substantial modifications.As a lawyer myself I can"t see any easy pathway out of this situation for Jab, other than the current proprietors winding up and transferring the operation over to a fresh legal entity (a new Company, with genuinely changed ownership), and that would be the "relief" the engine manufacturers probably need who would then presumably be free to use Rotec as an approved sub-contractor in the engine manufacturing phase, or to go it alone with their own mods they"ve been tinkering with.Mark R

[Russell]

Yea tony, heard from a lot of folks, the Camit group are good people. They have quietly been doing a lot of R&D all funded by themselves. At the minute they are progressing with " certification" of THEIR engine, I would expect the bills are mounting, heard goss that just getting through the cert thing alone is around $300k.....so I would now expect that proceeding further may be restricted by funds. It"s a real shame, as reports say their engine has addressed the problems in the current jab engines. I have a view that jab may be making things awkward for Camit as well. Will be interesting just where all this ends up, I believe there is over 4000 jab powered aircraft out there, most aware of Camits endeavours, and all 4000 waiting to retrofit Camit mods, and/or....buying a Camit engine. Would be nice to see certain folks, rethink their strategy and embrace Camits engineering, but i won"t be holding my breath.......pity.

[danny]

I"m Just adding my bit.

[mad max]

I helped o"l mate oil change his 4 cyl. Jab. 7 yrs. back (Jab. engine in a light wing) He"d just flown from Townsville to Tennant Creek. He fired it up and it went good. Stopped it and started it again and it locked up while cranking. A gudgeon pin had slipped out. Circlip grove was too shallow. The machining of the engine is so neat I would"nt mind having a clean engine mounted on a frame in my house as a piece of art. Dam shame. :"(