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  • Firebird.

    Hey Paul,I'm seeing the odd pic or two of your Firebird (white). It seems to be dramatically different from your web site graphic.Windscreen is cut higer, no engine cowl, door shape, even the front of the enclosure appears to have a different shape.How about some pics here on this forum and an update for all of us who are interested.Thanks,Mitch.www.thebutterflyllc.com

  • #2
    quote:Originally posted by Greg MitchellHey Paul,I'm seeing the odd pic or two of your Firebird (white). It seems to be dramatically different from your web site graphic.Windscreen is cut higer, no engine cowl, door shape, even the front of the enclosure appears to have a different shape.How about some pics here on this forum and an update for all of us who are interested.Thanks,Mitch.www.thebutterflyllc.comThat is basically correct Mitch. The idea was to build an Oz version of a raf with all the good bits kept and all the bad bits fixed. My NZ mate wanted it to be a silk purse, and was taking forever and trying to take over the project. So when that wondefull but costly, (I have lost $30k of income so far), suspension was handed down fropm ASRA, I set about doing what I wanted from the start.The engine enclosures will be an after market product. Market research has told me that a lot of people, the work horse users, do not want the engine emclosed. The more sport and recretional pilots will want some neat and tidy engine enclosures, spats etc.That way I have two potential markets. The gyro market is too small to not have plenty of machine choices to sell.The web site is being updated as we speak and there will be some info released in the new year. I have been letting little bits of info by way of pics slip into the system.At this point in time I don't need the hassle of people with very little gyro flying and some with none picking s**t out of it. I do not have time for that at the moment.I have had a team of several level headed and outside the square thinking type people working with me so that I get more input than just my own view.Mitch, I will send you some pics for your personal viewing. I can do the same for any genuine critic if they send me thier pvt email to paulbruty@tpg.com.auAre you back up flying yet?I am off on the 16th Jan for a couple of weeks to help the NZ people again, and to attend their National fly in and AGM. The CASA guy Rex, who took the punt on me last May, is the guest speaker. We have quite a bit to catch up on re flight testing and certification procedures etc. for new two place gyroplane designs in NZ. The UFO debarcle has made it neccessary to have correct and proper procedures to follow.My several years of Hybrid testing is considered to be helpful by the NZ guys.Anyway looking forward to catchiong up with my friend and NZ Firebird agent John, flying from Nelson in the South Island to the North island to attend the Dannivirke flyin. Also to finish the training of students I started back in June. Most now have their exams passed and their machines inspected and signed off. A break from the spanners will do me good.Below is a pic of the machine we are flying from Nelson in the South Island to the North island to attend the Dannivirke flyin.Aussie Paul. []Image Insert: 49.3

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    • #3
      Paul, surely you would "fear for your life" (your words) when flying in that machine. Even though the thrust line has been lowered approx 5", the actual gain would be far less than that because the masses of the engine, the heavier rear keel, exhaust and main undercarriage have all come down with the thrustline.I am just having a dig here in light of one of your earlier assessments where you refused to test another machine because you feared for your life - where the thrust line offset wouldn't have been as bad as the above machine.I have no doubt that the above machine flys well, and considerably better than a standard RAF. I would be curious to know what the offset is both one up and two up?Tim McClure

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      • #4
        Please refresh my memory Tim. Which machine are you talking about?Aussie Paul. []www.firebirdgyros.com

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        • #5
          "Please refresh my memory Tim"I will.Basicaly anythn with the gearbox 'upsidedown'Are you try'n to tell me some people are going to use these for mustern????I'd like to see that.Be like use'n a FW wouldnit??Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.You can always get the answer you want, if you ask enough experts.

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          • #6
            quote:Originally posted by TimPaul, surely you would "fear for your life" (your words) when flying in that machine. Even though the thrust line has been lowered approx 5", the actual gain would be far less than that because the masses of the engine, the heavier rear keel, exhaust and main undercarriage have all come down with the thrustline.I am just having a dig here in light of one of your earlier assessments where you refused to test another machine because you feared for your life - where the thrust line offset wouldn't have been as bad as the above machine.I have no doubt that the above machine flys well, and considerably better than a standard RAF. I would be curious to know what the offset is both one up and two up?Tim McClureNo Tim, incorrect I am afraid. Everything other than the engine/redrive exhaust prop and radiator, approx 900 lbs worth has gone up in relation to the thrust line!!!!!!!!!!! Even the heavier keel has move up in relation to the thrust line.The one up offset figure doesn't matter as it will be less than the two up figure.Tim, that machine passes the NZ fixed wing pitch stability standards. The reason it will do this is because you cannot test a fixed wing below stalling speed. This machine at zero airspeed and full power is a PPO waiting to happen, not like my Hybrid or the Qld boys, "sit up higher" machines, but by heck it is better than the HTLMachines that are around the traps.Tim, I don't know whether you are or not, BUT I am still amazed at the number of gyro people who do not understand what "stability" actually means.[:0]Aussie Paul.[]www.firebirdgyros.com

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            • #7
              Hey Birdy, since when is your name Tim!!!!! Tim mentioned a particular machine. Which one??Aussie Paul. []www.firebirdgyros.com

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              • #8
                Hey Tim, so that people will not go off all half cocked, you had a dig,[^] and I have had a bit of fun digging back.[^]For me, it is all in a days work at the bottom of the pile!!!![:I]Please don't eat anything to give you diarrhea!!!!![] You either Birdy!!![]Aussie Paul.[]www.firebirdgyros.com

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                • #9
                  I'd still like to see ANYBODY 'muster' in one o your birds Paul.Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.You can always get the answer you want, if you ask enough experts.

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                  • #10
                    "Market research has told me that a lot of people, the work horse users, do not want the engine emclosed. "Wot sorta 'work' will these people be do'n in the firebirds Paul???I'd realy like to meet these people who recon they muster in enclosed machines.Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.You can always get the answer you want, if you ask enough experts.

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                    • #11
                      Some blokes are still using C 172's and the like and get the job done okay so I guess its what you get used too. There is no doubt that an open framed 912 rotax powered with 27 ft rotors are probably the best way to go. The heavier the machine, the more you have to compromise or work very much harder[the pilot]. The thing I enjoyed about using the C172 was that whem things were quiet, you could duck up to altitude and have a cuppa of coffee and a biscuit before resuming hostilities.Also depends on your definition of "muster" Birdy.Brian

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                      • #12
                        "Also depends on your definition of "muster" Birdy"The point i was make'n exzactly Brain.I reckon a few get spotn, roundn up, and actual 'musterin' a bit confused.[ as youd know, theres a big difference, and some machines are just downright dangerous if your init at the wrong time.]Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.You can always get the answer you want, if you ask enough experts.

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                        • #13
                          Exactly !Brian

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                          • #14
                            Are you correcting me spell'n or agree'n with me Brian?[]Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.You can always get the answer you want, if you ask enough experts.

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                            • #15
                              Precisely Birdy.Pete

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