Popularity Problem

[Ken Watson]

Ever noticed we are not real popular with the fixed wing community? I thought they were just jealous, but now understand their concerns and the general publics concerns. Nearly every problem seems to stem from noise. The majority of our machines are damn noisy and often complaints about our machines also reflect on the FW's and I think they don't like the guilt by association. Our local ultralight club has bore the brunt of noise complaints, and over the past few weeks it was due to gyro's. They seem to treat me differently to other gyro's and am glad to say it is because mine is quiet. They often ask me why the others aren't as quiet as mine: a question I can't answer. I think we all need to recognise the problem we have , and make a concerted effort to remedy it, or the final answer will be we will have no where to fly. With common sense it is easy to make them quiet, and much more pleasureable to fly knowing you won't have the neighbours complaining about you. If you listen to a noisy gyro doing circuits you will soon understand why we are not winning any popularity competitions. If we all don't do something we will finish up flying in the simpson desert, as no one will want us around. Good mufflers and slow props. Ken

[asra]

This should be common sense but it aparently is the most uncommon thingI agree Ken they don't need to be as loud as most of them are Butch S.

[asra]

Once the hight limitation is lifted on gyro's, then maybe we can cruise around at higher ALT's. This will not only make our machines safer, but also help quiet them when flying around noise sensative area's.Lower rotor blade loadings will also help lower RPM and inversly fuel and noise.My 2 bob. []SamSam.Melbourne Vic.

[NiqueNaque]

Sam,Agree completely. There is no way you can miss a gyro flying at 300' AGL, regardless of its noise levels.I did an air conditioning job for a colleague of mine once, we put in a split package unit with ducted distribution for this house near Vaucluse, we stuck it in bare - max noise levels quoted by the manufacturer were 65 dB 'A' scale. You can talk louder than this. Still, the neighbour had a ***** about it, I suppose they didn't wan't a conversation going on outside their window for all hours of the night. We put a silencer on it and to me it didn't make much difference, but with a meter it did, down to 50 dB 'A'.So, noise levels are quite frequently 'subjective', that is, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.. we love aircraft noise, and others hate it, usually those envious people who don't have the balls to have a go.We had such an issue at Denman, the issue was not the sound pressure level of the noise, but the mere fact that there was 'a' noise, different from the normal sound scape, and this for the residents was disturbing, usually the 'whinging wife' on an executive salary.Once we get rid of the height restrictions we can do circuits at 2000', which is 7^2 times more quiet, or 1/49 of the sound pressure level, for the interim just blame CASA for not letting us fly at an appropriate level to attenuate the noise, if they get enough complaints they might do something about it, good or bad....Nicholas TomlinAlarmist - www.alarmist.com.au - we scare for you

[asra]

Also some common courtesy and good judgement of where not to fly is often seen as a display of good airmanship that does not go unnoticed with the community.PeteBairnsdale,Vic.

[asra]

I believe I will have helped another person with a noise problem that could easily destroy his business. A prop was freighted today for testing purposes.If you cannot hear the noise of the rotors as the gyro flys by then you havn't tried hard enough on the quietness thing.[] Noise levels are second only to stability on my soap boxes.[!]Aussie Paul.[]www.firebirdgyros.com

[birdy]

my neibours don't complain, and mine is near as loud as a robbo.Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.birdy, here.

[Mark Horan]

My neighbours dont complain, They know Im a councillor.....But Im sure that some times they pray for stronger gravity.

[asra]

I would want my Gyro engine to be muffled and as quite as possible.because they dont make headsets small enough to fit me Lorikeet.Besides which, it is just good manners to be considerate of othersif you are unfortunate enough to live in the more populated area's.The problem does not lie with the neighbours !I shudder just looking at pics of Gyro's with the exhaust systemson some of them, and if one was to constantly fly around my place,I would seek him out and thump him.I also have choice words for those Dickheads that ring me up tryingto sell me stuff !I thought about it and decided to paint me Firebird Army colours ( jungle green is me favorite colour anyway. ),then the folks below would not worry about it and would tend to wavewith the thumbs up because I was such a brave boy.On second thoughts, maybe not.Robert DunnMackay. Qld.Growing old is good while it lasts.

[Ken Watson]

The height level may help but you still have to get off the ground. The wonderfull thing about gyros is their low and slow capabilities. Mine is quiet at low level and the fixed wing guys tell me that the main noise from mine is the rotors. Thats how they know its me coming. Listen to a fixed wing take off and then listen to a gyro, and then make the fixed wing noise your goal. I run a 2.2 sub with a 2.62 rotax box and a 76"warp drive and a good muffler. Streamlining the axle seemed to help keep the air clean going to the prop. Having the extra power allows you to cruise around at lower revs in sensitive areas. Mine 1 up cruises at between 3800 and 4200 and at 4600 fully loaded. Max revs are 5200, but you don't need this on take off. 5000 does it easily. I've also got sound deadening rubber in front and on top of the engine to make it more pleasant for myself. Hope this may help some others.Paul'I know what your talking about and the gentleman in question should be commended for his attitude and his all out attempt to reduce his noise. I hope others will follow his lead.Unfortunately we will all get tarred with the same brush.By the way Nick our circuits will still be 500ft. Casa know too well that they don't want slow pokes like us in the same circuit pattern as fixed wing rocket ships. We will never fly circuits at 2000ft and I would never want to. Ken

[Brian]

Ken, obviously your muffler is the main thing that has quietened your gyro. I would fit a muffler if I knew it was going to reduce noise, not fall apart,not weight too heavy and not affect the water temp [muffler being in front of the radiator]. Would be good if someone could manufacture a copy of your muffler Ken as there are plenty of 2.2's out there!!BrianPooncarie NSW

[asra]

quote:Originally posted by BrianKen, obviously your muffler is the main thing that has quietened your gyro. I would fit a muffler if I knew it was going to reduce noise, not fall apart,not weight too heavy and not affect the water temp [muffler being in front of the radiator]. Would be good if someone could manufacture a copy of your muffler Ken as there are plenty of 2.2's out there!!BrianPooncarie NSWBrian, this is what we have developed, BUT the prop is the highest priority, and boy have we done some work on those!![]Image Insert: 64.07 KBImage Insert: 20.27 KBImage Insert: 28.14 KBImage Insert: 11.68

[Tim]

Paul, it would be amiss of me if I did not speak my mind on this subject. I like the sound level and "note" of these props but.......I have not seen a wide chord 2 blade prop on a pusher gyro yet that hasn't caused severe and dangerous cracking on the gyro components - yours included. This went back even as far as the early AMAX days when we were expirementing back then. The promlems show up everywhere, including cracks or failures in engine mounts, exhaust systems, alternator brackets, starter motors, redrive housings, and in fact anything attached to the engine. The problem is, as I see it, the wide chord taking out a bigger slice of dirty air than a multi blade of narrower chord. I do not think there would be any problem in a tractor configuration where the inflow is smooth and consistent. The problem is compounded in our case by having to use a large radiator, comparatively close to the prop.I doubt that we could ever get the airflow in smooth enough to rectify the problem but maybe a full and smooth enclosure right back to the prop with the radiator enclosed may help.Tim McClureBroken Hill

[asra]

That's fine Tim but I have to disagree. I have not found any problems at all related to the prop. The idea is certainly to keep the radiator as far away as possible. We have not had any cracking problems on any of the machines these props have been fitted to, both here and overseas. There may have been other problems with your props and redrive combo testing. I can only comment on our experiences.Tim, you said,The problem is, as I see it, the wide chord taking out a bigger slice of dirty air than a multi blade of narrower chord. Could you explain further please[?]Aussie Paul.[]www.firebirdgyros.com

[asra]

Anyone know how to make a 582 quiet? I'm told the Rotax retrofit parts do little to help. Dave