VSRA Hang Your Machine Weekend

[asra]

I don"t like Roscoe?? Who said??I tend to get a bit peeved with people who come along with obviously zero understanding of what the problem is and what the solutions are.It looks like the British CAA and University of Glasgow have wasted millions on their definitive studies on gyro stability.We should just go with Mr Camels solution of "don"t hold the stick too tight"

[birdy]

In my humble opinion, the pod shape is part of what makes the rosco reacte the way it does.My humble oppinion is same as your Brian. Since iv had this removable rosco pod, the first thing i noticed was the down force it applies to the nose.The stick, at cruise speed is bout 4" further back, and it needs full aft trimm adjustment to keep it there.The pod pins the nose down, maken the machine fly slightly nose down, which means the HS has a neg AOA onit. The power to hold XXX speed in cruise is higher than not podded. The only reason im still usen it is coz its more comfy wen ferrien for 5 hours. This inefficiant "loading" of the machine is zactly the same asa Magni, and its why they feel so solid.As for Dannys thermaling, the thrustline wouldnt make much difference at all, coz wen you ride a goody, your nearly at idle.Its just every other aspect of flyn that the HTL is inefficiant. [ and hazardous]But your rite Danny, letn the stick float is the only way to fly a HTL machine. Coz the instability of the frame is transfered to the rotor if you choke it.Mind you, iv dun a bit of flyn with the stick tyed to me leg [ for lateral control only], at less than 100", both hands occupied, in all sorts of weather, for hours on end.And trust me, i wouldnt even concider do""n that ina HTL machine.

[Tsemler]

In my humble opinion, the pod shape is part of what makes the rosco reacte the way it does.My humble oppinion is same as your Brian. Since iv had this removable rosco pod, the first thing i noticed was the down force it applies to the nose.The stick, at cruise speed is bout 4" further back, and it needs full aft trimm adjustment to keep it there.The pod pins the nose down, maken the machine fly slightly nose down, which means the HS has a neg AOA onit. The power to hold XXX speed in cruise is higher than not podded. The only reason im still usen it is coz its more comfy wen ferrien for 5 hours. This inefficiant "loading" of the machine is zactly the same asa Magni, and its why they feel so solid.Ahhh Isn"t this more about Centre of Pressure than Rosco"s pods.....?

[asra]

if Glasgow sent millons to work out a gyro. i think they mite have wasted some money ? if clt is the cure ..... cure of what ?

[aussie_paul]

if Glasgow sent millons to work out a gyro. i think they mite have wasted some money ? if clt is the cure ..... cure of what ?CLT is a large part of the "cure" of instability of some gyros.Aussie Paul.

[asra]

so is rosco"s 912 gyro"s clt. if not how far from it . and how far from it is consited ok

[birdy]

Ahhh Isn"t this more about Centre of Pressure than Rosco"s pods.....? No.Center of pressure is the center of airodynamic drag of the frame.IOW, all the frame presents drag to different degrees, and this horisontal opposing force is tryn to pull the machine horisontaly [ relitive to airflow] against the thrust of the prop. If the prop thrust is above this center point, its effectivly leavering the machine nose down, increasing in intensity as AS is increased. Just as mass dose under acceleration, as ina HTL machine.Haven a low center of pressure [relitive to the TL] is the same asa low COM [relitive to the TL]. Both force the nose down, but under different situations.Wot im talkn bout is the "airscoop" form of most pods.The relitive airflow is "scooped" up wards, by the top half of the pod and screen.Same as the tail wing ona F1 car.The reaction on the machine is equal and opposit, and the nose is forced down.A horisontaly symtrical frunted pod will cure this problem.Haven a balancing HS dose too, but at seroius power cost.if clt is the cure ..... cure of what ?It cures the imbalance of forces. Pretty clear actualy.so is rosco"s 912 gyro"s clt. if not how far from it Iv never measured one, but i know a standard Rosco 912 is a HTL machine. I flew one for years, without a HS, and i know it had all the trates of an unstable machine.I think Roscos HSs do an adaquate job of stableinsing his machines, coz wen they have one, its very sloid in the ruffest air.

[asra]

Done a few hours in roscos/mceagle gyros. no bad reports by me or anybody i know with one all happy campers.if making a gyro more clt makes them better in ruff air

[birdy]

Loyed, i ran into a coupla people a coupla munths ago who asked me if i knew you.Said id met you once in Alice years ago and have heard plenty of you.Not sure, but i think the ladys name was Anne, cant remember ol mates name. They were workn at Anningi station, bout 300 km NW of ere.Ring any bells?

[Brian]

Done a few hours in roscos/mceagle gyros. no bad reports by me or anybody i know with one all happy campers.if making a gyro more clt makes them better in ruff air

[aussie_paul]

This decision by ASRA to look very closely at ALL gyros, even Magnis /ELA"s /MTO"s etc are not exempt, has come about by the fact we have had lost too many pilots. We can argue all night why they died etc but that isnt going to cut much cake with CASA who do /are /watching very closely. ASRA has to answer directly with CASA and its not much of a surprise to quess that CASA asked basically "what are you [ASRA] going to do about it]???ASRA is concerned at this stage about low hour pilots /beginners flying unstable gyros. The chance to stuff up for a low hour pilot /student is surely increased. Particularly when there are more user friendly /easier / more stable gyros they could be flying.The review of the complete fleet of gyros will give their pilots are better idea of actually what tiger they have got under them and some may opt to get their gyros into a more stable condition.Well said Brian, and congratulations to the ASRA for getting on board with this important topic. Well done ASRA.Aussie Paul.

[asra]

Ahhh Isn"t this more about Centre of Pressure than Rosco"s pods.....?

[Brian]

Well said Brian, and congratulations to the ASRA for getting on board with this important topic. Well done ASRA.Aussie Paul. I believe that this is only part of the equation PB, I see instruction or better said [quality of instruction] a major factor as to where attention is going to be needed.PB, I never thought you & I would be actually agreeing on an issue but there you go !!

[birdy]

Yes it is a CofP issue, and vertical CofP issues can very simply be fixed with an adjustment of your HS.Dont confuse the two Sam.Center of pressure is different to the airscoop im talkn bout.A machine thats CLT and has the TL centered in the pressuer can still hava nose down tendancy if the frunt area is actn like an airscoop.And yes, adaquate HSs will counter it, but very inefficiantly.

[aussie_paul]

I believe that this is only part of the equation PB, I see instruction or better said [quality of instruction] a major factor as to where attention is going to be needed.PB, I never thought you & I would be actually agreeing on an issue but there you go !! Ha ha, Brian. You"re just a slow learner like me!!!