Whacky wheels

[NiqueNaque]

Russ,You"re just as bad.. answer the question... BTW - how"s the shed? Been knocked over yet?Mr Horriblulus can be a bit of fun, he just has to be steered - he"s as bad as a shopping trolley in his deft answering capability, but at least he is and has mad[e] a contribution to our knowledge of what to do in a cross wind... Cheers,Nic.

[Russell]

Thought i did answer..........go back sum.Yea sheds up.........lookin good. {security.....half starved rottweiller runnin around......make my day

[Russell]

I"ll put your "tone", down to the weather down your way. Rugup pal, drink more rum..........spread the love ;D

[tonydenton]

yeah nic got it. i remember now i had heard of that set up [doc] maybe read it in the mag but couldn"t quite understand it until your description. thats one reason i like the forum so much.i have learnt from this place..

[birdy]

Please answer the questions on how you"d handle sliding sideways in a gyro on landingNik, why should you slide at all?Iv always said " theres no such thing as landn in a xwind in a gyro".Sure, the wind could be howling across the airport/strip/road/SPOT, but that dont mean you gota land ina crab with any roll.Im not tryn to be a smartass Nik, i just cant see your point. If theres wind, theres no need for any roll on touchdown, and if theres no roll, why would you slide/skid sideways??Maybe its your instructer you should be "reengineering".

[Mark Horan]

Finally!!! someone has said it!And it wasnt Professor Julius Sumner-miller

[asra]

Hi Birdy,Probably refering to the take off as apposed to the landing here...

[NiqueNaque]

Rotor,Thank you.Birdy,You"re a pilot with thousands of hours experience in flying some pretty deft maneuvers and with all sorts of experience with hairy landings of most descriptions, you speak from the point of that experience. I can"t disagree with what you say, but what if you had 20 hours of time up - what then? I know you know how to avoid the situation from your now totally "thoughtless" flying, by this I mean you fly without having to think about it and you do it with the precision of a wrote taught kid doing his times tables - for you it just happens. What of a bloke who has his first landing on an unforgiving bitumen surface slightly crossed up even on a dead calm day - maybe just enough for him to tip it?? I know he would be helped by lots of training but let"s just say he didn"t get it and even if he did he"s had an involuntary twitch and kicked in a bit much rudder - would he be helped if the mains castered?? Who says my instructor needs re-engineering? This is nothing to do with any instructors, it is an engineering and design question directed toward making gyrocopters a little more forgiving.. the object of which is to see through our joint visualisation if the idea is worthy of further consideration. This question did not come from an instructor - it is from me, don"t blame anyone else. So, how would you handle a side slide on the ground?Mark,No, it was just *THE* "guru" of gyrocoptering... I don"t know why, maybe he"s just a SCG.You"re very judgemental, aren"t you? So busy shooting holes around the target you fail to hit it, all these posts and still no "Mark" solution to a sliding situation. I think you"ll find you more or less gave the same answer as birdy just did pack on page 2, ie, land into the wind to avoid the problem in the first place, watch the string, rotor management, yada, yada, yada, your point was noted back then. I"m not dismissing this as a/the solution and I have said that too, but how many hours do you have up as well? Have you landed on a slippery grass strip ever, or maybe a clay pan strip which just happens to be a little wet and slippery where the soil hasn"t soaked up enough moisture to be deep boggy, just slimy on the surface? This could happen to you - how would you deal with it? Are you going to just keep avoiding the question or are you going to tell us how you might tackle going sideways if your wheels started a side slide from a millisecond of ineptness on the controls as some of us suffer? How about if you did the same thing on a bitumen strip - how"s the reflexes, little bit too much rudder & oops, over we goes.. just a millisecond is all it takes, would castering mains help - what would you do?Thank you,Nic.

[birdy]

Rotorque,I havnt ritn off Niks idea, just telln it as i see it.Yes, theres plenty of stacks happen on TO too, and the solution is zactly the same.you speak from the point of that experience.[Funny, i knew youd say that. :]If experiance was the "be all to end all" Nik, then i wouldnt have said anythn.My first EO was at 7 hours, over thick witchety bush scrub, not an airstrip.The "spot" i chose was the only one for miles [ and luckily for me, i reached it] and i had to do a near zero roll to prevent hitn the scrub.Wots the difference?????????Our instructers.So, how would you handle a side slide on the ground?To be honest Nik, i can remember one. Recon it was in my first year ina gyro. Attempting to land on a "single cut" road[ one grader blade wide, or bout 10"] with a strong xwind.Yes, id dun it before with no excitement, but this time, instead of just hitn it, i just missed it. The left main dug into the sandy windrow and spun me round, then the nose wheel snaged the sand and kept it go"n till id dun a compleat 180 degrees.Why didnt i go legup???Coz the rotor held it uprite.You see, wen it snaged the windrow, i sticked into the spin, useing the remaining "flight" in the rotor to hold it uprite.And you can safely bet your left nut, that if it had castering mains, it still woulda spun round, and if the stick wasnt used, it woulda gon legup.Iv had neumerous things snag my mains wen taken off too, maken the machine fishtail down the road, but if you use your rotor, it is very unlikey to fall over.What of a bloke who has his first landing on an unforgiving bitumen surface slightly crossed up even on a dead calm day - maybe just enough for him to tip it??He"ll go legup Nik, if he dont correct with the stick. But if theres was no roll, theres no problem.No amount of safty engineering will protect a student who isnt taught the basic phisics.I know he would be helped by lots of training but let"s just say he didn"t get it and even if he did he"s had an involuntary twitch and kicked in a bit much rudder - would he be helped if the mains castered??Riteo, lets say he did get the good instruction, and lets also add that he"s had a few thousand hours on the stick,......... eventualy he will have a "twitch", [ its called complacency]. Yes, he will bend sumthn, like that idiot a coupla years back who smacked his rotor on the deck coz he turned too steep and too low, he"s no different to the next bloke, we"er all human.Safty devices are like gouvernment subsities, they promote slothfullness.Who says my instructor needs re-engineering?I did, in my last post. This question did not come from an instructor - it is from me, don"t blame anyone elseI am blamen the instruction Nik. >If you was taught rite, you wouldnt even have these things on your mind.

[Tim]

[Mark Horan]

Well Nick,Im sorry if you thought I was avoiding answering the Question, I wasnt.I just didnt understand what the question was. Still dont really?!A little too much rudder and over she goes really shouldnt occur at full backstick on take off, not going fast enough.A little too much rudder and over she goes shouldnt be to much of a problem as ground speed increases and the stick rolls forward balancing on the mains, as much of the weight of the machine is being transfered from the wheels to the spinning rotors, which as evidenced by the two previous posts, appears to be the key to the question, yada yada yada. (try tilting your rotor into the wind a little) Fly the rotor!

[Brian]

Brian,As ever the gentleman.Thank you for your reply.Everyone else... where is it??Nic.Thank you for the compliments Nick !

[Brian]

Nik, I go back to training, there is absolutely no need to tip a gyro over either on takeoff or landing IF you have been trained the way I was.This is my personal opinion but I have seen what has been coming out of instruction and frankly, I"m dismayed and disappointed. I"m aware that we are short of instructors and all the rest but I think gyro flying is at a cross roads, I really do. This is just not here but in the USA as well. I read the forums and the standard of flying is extremely ordinary in too many cases.Like it or not, gyros are inherently twitchy on the ground !! FW"s that I have flown are the exact opposite. Why, because FW"s have much bigger wheel bases

[NiqueNaque]

By golly, I think I"ve upset Brian, not directly, but by bringing up a topic that needs attention... my apologies for this cobber..didn"t mean to stir you up!Brian, does this mean you"re offering to whup some butts into shape at your place? Good on you if so. Now let"s see - shall we use the chelice or the cat-o-nine-tails today??"Like it or not, gyros are inherently twitchy on the ground".. So, if we gave the rotor a bit of its own energy - as in serious pre-rotation - would it assist in the stabilisation of the gyro same as a fixed wing? With a fixed wing the inertia of the wings and their surface area prevent rolls, so if the rotor has inertia and lift it should help stabilise the gyro - would that be right?As to Mssrs Birdy, Horanus Horriblulus and Tim..What is the height to the centre of gravity for your respective machines?What is the weight of your machines in take off condition?What is the overturning moment on the machine if the mains obtain purchase through some unfortunate abberation in your otherwise *perfect* judgement?What is your reflex time?Does every flight you do go perfectly?Interested to see the responses here...Cheers,Nick

[birdy]

As to Mssrs BirdyWots that spozd t mean ??? What is the height to the centre of gravity for your respective machines?Buggered if i know. ???What is the weight of your machines in take off condition?Buggered if i know. ???What is the overturning moment on the machine if the mains obtain purchase through some unfortunate abberation in your otherwise *perfect* judgement?Buggered if i know. ???What is your reflex time?Quick enuf, obviously, coz no bull has stomped on me................ yet. ;DDoes every flight you do go perfectly?Must have, coz im still ere. Duno wot your driven at Nik, but i"ll appolagise for speakn. :-X