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Tractor vs Puller design

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  • Tractor vs Puller design

    Hi all,I was wondering why the pusher configuration is so much more popular now days. Is it just a fashion trend ?

  • #2
    G"Day OAG,Just so you dont get the impression you are being ignored, there is a lot going on within ASRA at the present time.Welcome to the ASRA forum. I wouldn"t call it a fashion trend, though most blokes I would think, tend to enjoy the "outlook" a pusher gives you.This "outlook" in an open frame pusher translates to pure pleasure as if you yourself were doing the flying.That"s how I"d describe it....though I must say I have never flown in a tractor gyroplane, the outlook would be much like looking out of a small Cessna or a Jabiru....not quite the same thing. ;DAgain welcome!Mitch

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    • #3
      There is absolutely nothing wrong with a tractor design, in fact, the "Little Wing" hold most if not all world records so it obviously flies very well.I rather the pusher idea better view is a big winner.

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      • #4
        Haven"t been in a tractor gyro but view wise it"s probably like a FW. You can see through the prop no problem, everything else gets in the way...A pusher is much better for seeing all around.......and of course an open frame is best for looking down as well - you just have to swap a windscreen for a freezer suit...(please excuse the shameless excuse to post pics)Dave

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        • #5
          Shameless Mate!!

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          • #6
            Thanks all for the response to the question and the welcome!I am not a real pilot of any kind

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            • #7
              My dad had a Magni Gyro and is busy assembling a Xenon(French design). Thats interesting please explain what you mean by assembling a Xenon?

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              • #8
                Yes, I understand that it usually comes fully complete. A little history to explain why he is assembling one...My dad being French speaking helped the South African dealers on their visit to France. He had an interest in the Xenon from the outset as he was looking for a fully enclosed gyro.The dealers brought in two Xenon"s for testing of which they assembled one. I think that the Xenon will come mostly complete and the dealers will do some minor assembly before sale. My dad having interest in building one and also helping the dealers managed to buy the other incomplete Xenon. He will have to do his solo flying and testing of the aircraft for the required amount of time before he can bring up

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                • #9
                  There number one biggest problem, is most are fitted with the tail dragger undercarridge.

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                  • #10
                    Interesting, I would of never foreseen the smoke problem! Why do you say the tail dragger config is a problem though?

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                    • #11
                      Interesting, I would of never foreseen the smoke problem! Why do you say the tail dragger config is a problem though? The tail dragger configuration is very hard to get used to, and is also very sensative in steering. I have been flying tricycal configurations for hundreds of hours know. But only about 3 months ago I had the oppertunity to trial a tractor gyro, and did some runups up and down a strip. I quickly found myself having to re-learn how to stear and control a gyro on the ground. I was unable to get it up and over half takeoff speed due to its sensativity and gave up. Since then I have had correspondance from several tractor flyers overseas, and all have had the same problems. So it wasnt me or just this machine, but all tractor gyro"s.The main reason is due to the CofG being behind the mains, which it needs to be otherwise it would tip onto its nose. This causes the machine to wanto turn around, and so causes it to be very sensative. This is also the reason why ground looping is common with low hour tractor pilots. Cross winds can be the other problem as a gyro takes off on all 3 wheels, and has no ability to raise its tail prior to takeoff. So trying to kick in rudder during takeoff is normally impossible as it is usually coupled to the tail wheel.The last issue with tractor gyro"s is the prop is further away from the rudder and so its effectivness is lessend. There is no issue for a Fixed Wing machine as they usually land at 40-50 knots. But a gyro can land at 0 knots, so an idoling motor still has some effect on the rudder which can assist with a low speed landing on a bumpy, gusty day. Regards SamL.......

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                      • #12
                        Sam, there is something not quite right with that gractor gyro. The LW was no problem at all. Yes it was unusual to take off from the 3 point attitude but I was able to do wheeler take offs. The rudder was suitably effective at idle because of the moment arm.Yes the fumes in the pilots face when conducting slow flight behind the power curve etc are annoying as is the less visibility issue BUT I loved it and it behaved like a real gentlemans gyroplane.The biggest problem is the slightest rotor flap and you take out the tail feathers!!!!!!!!!!!!Aussie Paul.

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                        • #13
                          I guess depending on the design of the tractor gyro the vert stabs could be too small to try and stay as far away from those flapping rotors. But theoretically tail moment should be more effective plus an engine"s thrust in front of the cg would also help stabilise rather than the destabilising effect of a pusher. Prop wash should only add to control sensitivity and not stability. But looking at some pushers they also have longer tail moments than the norm like the Xenon and Magni, all in the goal of adding stability. I saw this futuristic tractor design from the Sportcopter web site http://www.sportcopter.com/futuredesigns.php , very cool stuff!

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                          • #14
                            The LW was no problem at all. Yes it was unusual to take off from the 3 point attitude but I was able to do wheeler take offs. The rudder was suitably effective at idle because of the moment arm.The biggest problem is the slightest rotor flap and you take out the tail feathers!!!!!!!!!!!!Aussie Paul. Paul what do you mean when you say wheeler take offs ?Yes the rudder would be effective in flight due to is long moment arm. But say in a cross wind, or turbulent air at low airspeed it would exibit limited effect compared to the closley coupled tail plane fitted to a pusher gyro.

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                            • #15
                              The LW was no problem at all. Yes it was unusual to take off from the 3 point attitude but I was able to do wheeler take offs. The rudder was suitably effective at idle because of the moment arm.The biggest problem is the slightest rotor flap and you take out the tail feathers!!!!!!!!!!!!Aussie Paul. Paul what do you mean when you say wheeler take offs ?Lift the tail and run along as if balancing on the mains in a tricycle gyro Sam.The sam as a fixed wing tail draggerYes the rudder would be effective in flight due to is long moment arm. But say in a cross wind, or turbulent air at low airspeed it would exibit limited effect compared to the closley coupled tail plane fitted to a pusher gyro.

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