Gyro down Pilot recovering.

[asra]

Hi this is Stuart Griffiths first thanks for the support (those that did) it is funny that no one ever asked me what happened, how can you have a finding without asking me. I was doing hops as mentioned thats about the only true part of the story. the only part of the strip left to land on when I found myself air born was the part that I got bogged on that morning (in hindsight that would have been the best option I probably would have only wrecked my gyro and not myself). In the 5 hours that I had in the air with an instructor he never touched the stick except on landing or to show me something in the split second that I had to make a choice I thought that I made the right one (go around and use the full length of the strip). I still really don"t know what happened but I did not push the stick ford. My only explanation is that I hit wind shear the gyro drooped once witch scared the **** out of me to this I did nothing the same thing happened straight away to this I puled the stick back and ended up vertical not a good feeling I tried to stall turn out of this a (should have puled the power once again good in hindsight). Then I don"t rember much. I new all the risks and will pay for this for the rest of my life. My thoughts are that your first solo should be in the plain that you started in I found this from my fixed wing I changed planes after about 30 hours and was still uncomfortable this is not an excuse just an observation. Regards and thanks for all thous with good wishes Stuart Griffiths. PS the gyro is still in my hanger if anyone is interested I also have a 400 quicksilver for sale

[asra]

Hello Stuart, with certified aircraft I would think the majority of students would do their first solo in the aircraft they trained in, not their own. This is when the instuctor thinks the student is capable of handling the aircraft safely. Most gyro students have to do their first solo in their own gyro, not their instructors machine which they trained in. This say"s a lot for the instructors confidence in the students level of training. Another thing is the first few hours in a gyro every move has to be thought about. When **** happens it takes a faster cpu to keep the mental prossessing up to speed with what is happening. With enough time to get a feel for the aircraft very little mental prossessing is needed as the right reactions come automaticaly.Also, disscussing an accident without knowing all the facts is one thing. Blaming the pilot without knowing the facts is another. Stick it to em. Peter.

[Brian]

The above reinforces the need for ALL instructors to undertake the up dating courses put on by ASRA although I fully realize no amount of instruction will ever stop someone from doing something they shouldnt. We continue to debate the point that a students first solo should be in the gyro that they learn in and this is a valid point, however, would the same students who would like this, would they be prepared to shell out say another 7 or 8 hours or whatever the standard the instructor feels happy with??. I"m not an instructor but if I was and a student wanted to solo in my gyro, then he would have to have a lot more than 5 hours and I would not hop out till I was perfectly happy in all aspects of their flying ability which would be more than if they were to solo in their own gyro.A student pilot or a pilot freshly signed off, hopping into their own gyro should not feel uncomfortable in any way as they should be starting off taxying without rotors first off, then with rotors and learning rotor management, then taxying to the stage of lifting the nosewheel off the strip and balancing on the mains using throttle and control inputs BEFORE

[Waddles]

Gidday Gents,An interesting thread. I"m surprised that no-one has yet condemned ASRA for not acting to investigate the accident and the circumctances surrounding it! Tim states:"If there was some deficiency in instruction or pilot attitude then it should be addressed. Otherwise we are committing ourselves to repeat the same mistakes again."It"s bloody hard to do anything when ASRA doesn"t know about the accident, has not received a report or even verbal advice.How the hell can ASRA fix a potential problem when members won"t help themselves or their Association?Having said that, I"m extremely glad that Stuart is recovering well.Allan Wardill.

[welli]

I was advised of the accident within minutes of it happening, and was kept informed throughout the rescue and subsequent hospitalisation of Stuart. As the Operations Manager was away at the time, I liaised with Murray Barker (acting Operations Manager). I received a comprehensive eyewitness report with photos from a very concerned member a couple of days later, and forwarded them all to Murray. And I asked for further investigations to be done. Were they?I know Murray make a couple of phone calls. But I am unaware of any follow-through on anything.Ll

[Waddles]

Gidday All,It would appear that I have jumped in feet, legs and all by not checking the dates on ALL the posts in this thread. This accident occurred almost 2 years ago and was satisfactorily dealt with at the time, according to the Accident/Incident Report file.I apologise unreservedly for any embarassment or concerns my post above may have caused.Regards,Allan Wardill.Moral: Keep off the Forum; for me at least!!!!!

[Brian]

Gidday All,It would appear that I have jumped in feet, legs and all by not checking the dates on ALL the posts in this thread. This accident occurred almost 2 years ago and was satisfactorily dealt with at the time, according to the Accident/Incident Report file.I apologise unreservedly for any embarassment or concerns my post above may have caused.Regards,Allan Wardill.Moral: Keep off the Forum; for me at least!!!!! It got me to Allan initially [the date] but the thread is relevant today as it was two years ago or tomorrow and you comments here are always appreciated. I"m fairly sure that there are few organizations anywhere where you have the Operations Manager, the President and up to three board members

[asra]

Before getting into gyro"s I put in a bit over 20hrs in a trike. I bought one and was going to teach myself to fly it. I was advised by a friend who had been in them for years that it was cheaper to pay for instruction than to pay for the repairs that would be required. Training was similar to gyro training in that it was twenty hrs mandatory, solo when the instructor felt the student was ready. The similarity ended there. On first going solo the instructor would add sandbags to the rear seat of whichever aircraft the student had trained in, his or the students to give it exactly the same feel. My first solo was a very hairy ride. Although I had got some feel for the machine on the ground with balancing and hops, it was a different story in the air especialy when hit with unexpected turbulance on a still morning not long after daybreak. The thing that threw me the most was the unexpectedly fast sink rate compared to the training machine when below a certain airspeed. I asked for and paid for more time with the instructor just flying around to get a better feel for gyro"s to make it easier to change over to my machine. An extra three or four hours with the instuctor and a few changes to the controls of my machine to give a closer feel to the training machine, and solo was no problems.The cost of exta training may cause sombody who is interested not to take up gyro flying. What is the problem there. Loss of income for the instructor? Loss of membership for asra? The student may take it on himself to go solo against the instructors advice? His problem.Going solo in your own machine rather than the two seater that you have trained in is the way its been done for a long time but it is also a big statement on the students level of training.Just saw your last post Brian. The ten to fifteen hours looks a fair thing but I feel there would be very few low time accidents if the student went solo when the instructor felt they could safely handle his own machine.I will add a bit more here. One thing that struck me when first reading this thread was an instructors attitude to students in general. How common is this type of attitude?

[Tsemler]

I Think that the minimum set hours at present are suitable, and that it really boils down quality of instruction givin. i think its hardly fair for Stuart to take full responsablity for this mishap,

[bosca]

I disagree with a couple of posts in that the initial taxing should be done without rotors.Stupid and it is like taxing without wings.Its unheard of.Kym.

[asra]

StuartI will make this short and to the point. I inspected and test flew your gyro, and then made it clear, there were a number of mods that needed to be made to this gyro, before you flew it. Were these mods made????You were not one of my students, and I did the test flight as you were one of the club members.Ross B

[asra]

I think that a few people have raised some good points. but have missed the fact that I did"t mean to take off & when I did I did what I thought was right in the same position I would have done the same. I went solo in a FW in the same time but as luck would have it nothing went wrong. Ros yes I think so do you know some thing I dont

[Disco]

StuartI will make this short and to the point. I inspected and test flew your gyro, and then made it clear, there were a number of mods that needed to be made to this gyro, before you flew it. Were these mods made????You were not one of my students, and I did the test flight as you were one of the club members.Ross BRoss,While you did a top job with me as a student and alway offered good advice, it"s bloody tough when you are learning about gyros and if you took notice of everything everybody said about changes to your machine, you"d never ever get to fly.

[asra]

Ross was right there were mods needed, that i would have not found i thought that i had addressed if i had not then i would like to no. My first points are if a student can"t fly the instructors gyro maybe they should look at buying a 2 seater and training in it. as to hours of flight when UL training there is a set program, effects of controls, straight and level, stalls, ect. There is some thing to be learned from this I am not hear to have a go at anyone, since my crash I have been forced out of a machine & into an office OH&S (before you comment on this I have heard it all you in safety) i have been involved in accident reports & found that there is always some thing to learn. May be more time doing hops would have helped, but when i found my self in the air i had no idea what it was capable of it was like going from a VW to GTHO if i was in the VW when i pulled back at the bottom of my dip not much would have happened. Like I have said before I don"t blame any one but me & although people have moved around it my apparently bad attitude. I think that you have heard the last from me I think that from now it will be unproductive. I still want to sell my gyro or is there some one out there that will rebuild it for me I am not prepaird to take the responsibility. Regards Stuart

[asra]

Apparently my contact details are not correct any one that wants to contact me email: stuartgriffith@bigpond.comphone:0265435100