I scratched "Persistence"

[asra]

thanks Fergus !You may well have hit the nail on the head there ... sense i am at 4800 ft in elevation i have to go faster than the usual 20 to 30 mph from what I understand I did indeed have the front wheel down to get my ground speed up pryor to pulling back on the stick ...this was after getting the rotors to speed....... the airfeild I have been useing is an abandoned airport the city officials said use it if you want to .... but don't say I told you so, its officially closed to regular air trafic.not Ultralights . or hot air balloons or paerasails ... but the winds there are very unpredictable indeed.I have followed bensons instruction up to the point of ground hops short hops in the air is what I have been trying to do the last 4 or so months .... it has taken me 3 years to get to this point .... you are correct it is NOT fast ! I know it sounds like I just got the gyro togather and hopped in it and am trying to fly it but that is not the case , if the others don't believe me so what ! I deviated from bensons steps because of the altitude mainly .... his instructions say no wind and an emence amount of room .... nether of which i have an abundance here of.... I ballanced the aircraft on the mains the entire length of the run way 3 or 4 times the last time i was out there and the gyro never did want to leave the ground ., thinking the altitude was the problem I figured more speed was needed.... well I got the speed yesterday hehehehehe and it flew , just not the way i expected it to there is no one arround my airea that has a gyro the closest fella that I know of is in marrysville .... I don't know tha man and I wouldn't let anyone else fly my machine anyway.... it took too much work to get it this far to have someone else mess it up ....however , if I could get someone to just take me for a ride in a 2 place gyro it would help alot because I don't know what it is supposed to be like ...I've been in a cestna 185 once in my life is all...so obviously flying experience is something i lack .... but with the lack of teachers there is not a heck of alot I can do about it ..My gyro is a grosely Modified Bumble Bee of the 1985 vintage , but in reality its my own design ... un proven un tested..... that is what i am trying to do hereprove it and test it ... make it right ... I realise its not the best approach to add 2 unknowns into the equasion , Me and the gyro too but there isn't much I can do about that eather .... I could care less what these guys THINK of me ...its of no importance at allperhaps some day they will learn that there is alwayse more than one way to do something. .... . Bob......" Momm'a alwayse told me , Son the impossable is only a little bit Harder... and ya know I do believe She was RIGHT ! "

[asra]

well, I made a promice .. I said if I crashed I'ed tell ya and post a pic if i could ...i did just that Have a goodern ! Bob...." Momm'a alwayse told me , Son the impossable is only a little bit Harder... and ya know I do believe She was RIGHT ! "

[asra]

Thanks for the above Bob, most folks would keep quite about it.Mate, put a post on tha Yank Forum telling them about your plight.Lots of good ol boys over there, an one or two of em just might findthemself in your neck of the woods with their tandem an take you for a ride ! As well as that, if a gyro pilot turned up an liked the look of your Gyro an offered to test it for you,he'd be doin you a big favour an one that you should not pass up.I wish you well.Robert DunnMackay. Qld.Growing old is good while it lasts.

[NiqueNaque]

There's a man I knewwho called himself 'Bob K'Where is he? you askHe's not with us today,and he'll never bewith us tomorrow,Yes his kin livein grief and sorrowno, I cannot counttheir thousands of tearsand yes he's been gonefor quite some yearsthere's his grave,right over thereand his sorry wifein that rocking chairBob I hopeI'm getting through to you,What you're doingis not so newmany othershave tried beforeto find themselves coveredin blood and gorethen have found themselveswith the undertakerhaving to make their peacewith their maker.

[asra]

This can be the result..... ...Not much fun to investigate a fatality that would not have happened if the person had taken my advice!!! [xx(] [V] [] [!] [] I hope that this is not too graphic. [:0]Aussie Paul. []Image Insert: 76.55 KBImage Insert: 56.92 KBImage Insert: 62.9 KBwww.firebirdgyros.com

[asra]

Wow Paul ! I don't think even I could repair that one MAN that hit hard ! What happened Do you know ?Paul I've been following your advice.... well for the most part ! theres some things you say to do thats impossable for me to do buddy ! Instructions is one of them . so I have to do the best I can with what I've got . And Real Cute Nique Naque you didn't make Sami a Poem like that when he clipped the fence and smunched up his gyro .... and alot of you guys have bit the dirt more than once as well ..... it goes with the teortory ! this ain't my first set of blades and i bet it won't be my last .... if I wanted a safe hobby I'ed take up Poker ! though Poker in Austrailia may not be so safe as here in the US ! heheheheheh take care !Bob......" Momm'a alwayse told me , Son the impossable is only a little bit Harder... and ya know I do believe She was RIGHT ! "

[NiqueNaque]

Bob,Your mother's advice, she'll be 'dead' right, I just hope all the voices here warning you aren't dead right as well.It was Greg Mitchell who clipped the fence. I know that Greg took instruction on how to fly from other gyro pilots, I know he was flying an aircraft that was designed by a person with some years of experience in the business and that aircraft, for all intensive purposes, was viceless. I also warned Greg, I perceived he was falling into the over confidence scenario, which in comparison you are tripping out on the stuff, like way out maaaaan.Greg admitted to his folly, he pointed out where he went wrong and could nail it down to the point of his failure to control himself and in turn the gyro.Can you do this? You point to a number of factors like the wind causing the accident. You are EXPORTING the blame for this in saying that, you don't point to your very own failure to control the machine, you say, 'not enough time' and 'must have been a gust of wind that did it'.YOU DID IT! YOU DID IT! YOU DID IT! YOU DID IT! YOU DID IT! YOU DID IT! YOU DID IT! YOU DID IT! YOU DID IT! YOU DID IT! YOU DID IT! YOU DID IT! YOU DID IT! YOU DID IT! YOU DID IT! YOU DID IT! YOU DID IT! YOU DID IT! YOU DID IT! YOU DID IT! YOU DID IT! YOU DID IT! YOU DID IT! YOU DID IT! YOU DID IT! YOU DID IT! YOU DID IT! YOU DID IT! Its your fault!Of itself the machine will sit on the ground and do nothing until you come along and start it up and run it down the taxi way, the wind will not do much to it unless it is moving.For f**k's sake get some proper instruction! Go and learn to fly it a lower elevation. Get your gyro test flown and examined by an experienced person.Nick.Footnote:Pete - you were right.Barry - please disable this bloke from posting here, if we continue to converse with him we could be construed as 'giving advice' and sued for so doing by his wife should she wish to recoup her future loss. If he cannot post then we cannot respond and then be held to account. It doesn't seem to matter whether our words are completely negative, it just seems to up the ante with him, so best for us not to respond to him at all and if he can't post we can't respond.

[asra]

You want to know Birdy's secret ?He counts out loud onis fingers !Onis fingers, and he wears them thongs all the time becoz he'slearnt to count upta twenty. Imagin that.He lays inis swag (ina feetal position) and counts is cows jumpingover ants nests.His wife has to give im a kickin an say's, " David, will you pleasestop counting your cows jumping over anthills out loud,and go to sleep." He says, " But Dear, I gota keep me eye onem ta see whichway tha winds blowin, eh."We hear all this because the orrible noise is blown over here on the jetstream and dumped onus.Yep.Robert DunnMackay. Qld.Growing old is good while it lasts.

[Greg Mitchell]

Nick,Fu*ck off with your moral high ground crap. Personally I am sick and tired of your crap and comming on to this forum only to find another of your self serving "wannabe a polly woffles"."It was Greg Mitchell who clipped the fence. I know that Greg took instruction on how to fly from other gyro pilots, I know he was flying an aircraft that was designed by a person with some years of experience in the business and that aircraft, for all intensive purposes, was viceless. I also warned Greg, I perceived he was falling into the over confidence scenario,....."You are such a fu*king ******!! Enough of your crap Nick. Keep your personal sh*t to yourself and get off your fu*king high horse, else someone should knock you off it.. Yeah go call your Lawyer, ya fu*kin girl guide. Fancy asking Barry to take Bob off the forum...you Pri*k!!!So along with me old mate Bones and some others I too think it's time for me to stop posting on this forum, when idiots the likes of Nick, can come along miss quote and reword to suit his own ends, with his self serving diatriabes. You're still FIGJAM Nick. Please Bob go get a ride in a gyro before your next test flight.Mitch. www.thebutterflyllc.com

[asra]

Thanks Greg I couldn't have said it better myself .I Said at the beginning of this post it was Pilot error ... it Obviously had to be ! I'm not dodgeing the blame ! however with all the help here i think i finally got the answer...thanks to EI-Gyro I think i now understand what happened , because it makes sense ..... I simply cept the nose wheel down and shouldn't have , I shouldn't have worried about my ground speed and just flew the gyro... I had no idea keeping the nose wheel down would do that ... but then I never took instructions eather ... and there fore my instructor surely would have told me Never put your nose wheel down to gain speed because the thing may try to fly when you got the rotor almost flat and lift the thing up side ways and do it so fast you can't react in time ...unless your realy lucky .... " surely he'ed have said that Right ? In a Pigs eye !!!!! Half of the instructors probly don't know that.! who are you kidding ? Most instructors are so fear-indoctroniated and spred fear so badly that they would never have made that "mistake " and a MISTAKE is exactly what it is ! I paid the price, its my problem . To you the answer is Instructions... thats alwayse the ANSWER.... do you ever THINK by yourself ? or do you have to have instructions for that as well ? .... Understanding your gyro and why it does what it does is far more important than some fell'as views on what is safe and what is not ... he may well be in error ... then where are you ? You trust your life to your instructor .... I could Never do that , unless he proved to me he knows what he's talking about ... and that would take more than just flying a gyro arround the patch .... the instructors I have talked to on the phone are in the business of spredding the FEAR FACTOR of FLIGHT the 3 F's they pump it up till everyone is in a frenzy ! its simply " GOOD BUSINESS " they make money off of it .... lets face it , if 75 out of 100 gyro pilots out there tought themselves and had a good record of surviveability there would be less work for instructors ! but unfortionately its not that way, the ones that do teach them selves have a tennancy to crash and or die in the proccess.... which just feeds the fire of the 3F's .... Its my contension that a person can teach themselves to fly and not die in the proccess ! you have to be carefull, you have to be better than most, and you have to Understand your aircraft completely ........ well, I'm still working on it .... I'm not there yet ..... when I get there I'll have to find something else to do because it will be boreing to me , I never expect to MASTER it . I will be happy just to be able to do it reasonbly well. so Haing in there, in a few years I'll be gone to greener pastures ! and you'll have to find another Bloke to pick on , which I have no doubt you will . Mitch ... Sorry I drug you into this it was not my intensions at all. but the answer seamed good at the time I am afrade its like wrestleing with a pig in the mud , after a while you begin to think he likes it ! and I think Nique Naque likes to put down others to raise himself up , doesn't care how he does it , just as long as he looks better in the proccess, many here have that attribute it seams .oh well , takes all kinds to make the world go arround ! as far as the Gyro ride goes... I'll try but no promices , just ain't any arround here ! I do think I'll go back to taxieing for a few weeks though , just to ease my nerves ! if nothing else ! ... never hurts to take a few steps backwards and refresh the known, before pressing into the unknown . Bob......and enough of this I'm done posting here ! c ya !" Momm'a alwayse told me , Son the impossable is only a little bit Harder... and ya know I do believe She was RIGHT ! "

[asra]

Bob,I'm not going to say anything about your 'flying' because I said I would keep my mouth shut on that topic. However, I find your assertion that most gyro instructors try to create fear in their (potential) students just to generate more income, extremely offensive. The four instructors that I have personally flown with, Terry Brandt, Jim Mayfield, Scott Tinesand, and Steve McGowen are highly experienced and accomplished pilots and instructors who teach people to fly gyros because they love the sport and want to help produce safe pilots. Non of them are getting rich in the process. You can do whatever you want and try to justify your decision not to pursue training anyway you want to, but there is no reason to question the integrity and motivation of good men just to make yourself feel better about your (very unwise) decision.

[Brian]

Bob, I too know a few instructors and they arent interested in anything other than have their students fly sucessfully and safely!!Also Bob, I know 600 miles is a long way but it would be more than worth the trouble and cost involved to get dual instruction. Every time you have a roll over or whatever, it costs you time effort and money and its going to get to a point where getting proper training is going to be a whole lot cheaper than continually rebuilding and making rotors.You also have to realize that if you were to get airborne [and God forbid] you were to loose controll in the air and a fatality was to result, it would be bad publicity for the gyro world of which you are part off.As a gyro owner, you Bob have a responsible role to play.Brian

[asra]

Rest assured, I am watching............Barry Ferguson,ASRA Webmaster

[asra]

True, true .... I made a blanket statement that simply isn't true ... I know there are a few out there that not only know what their talking about but do have the best of intentions as well. and it is Rude and totally unfare of me to say that some instructors are in it for the money and others arn't ... as it casts doubt on the good instructors everywhere. Your right , i'm wrong ... I apoligise ! it Realy gripes me however , when the first thing you hear out of the mouth of well meaning people is " Instructions ! " INSTRUSTIONS is not the end all of everything You must realise that there are folks out there that can fly , have flone and are still flying that havn't had formal instructions. there are more out there than you realise I am sure....... but I am here... so there are others , ... will you treat them the same way ? .... is this a " Instructed Only's Club ?"....... I am sure You have tought them well to keep their mouth shut and never say a THING about teaching yourself to fly .... so giveing them help , which is what this board is supposed to be all about , is going to be alot harder if you don't know the questions they face ! Every time I say anything on this board it alwayse comes down to get instructions stupid .... or worse Your intitled to your opinion , but so am I ....... I didn't post here to be belittled, I posted here for help and to help others. If the only help you have is "get instructions" then please don't post a responce ... because if you do post ,its just agtonistic... and thats no help at all to me or anyone I have recieved alot of help here along with alot of flustration ! thanks for the help !Bob......" Momm'a alwayse told me , Son the impossable is only a little bit Harder... and ya know I do believe She was RIGHT ! "

[asra]

Oh my am I supposed to be scared now ? You might try talking to your boys and get them to back off a bit....just a thought ... be it as it may I still learned something from this post regardless. this Site is one of the best sites i have found for good information on gyro construction.... its a shame that when ever i post I get jumped on for not having formal instructions ! ..... and to be honnest I doubt now I would take formal instructions if it were given to me just to prove that I can do it ! ... c ya !Bob......" Momm'a alwayse told me , Son the impossable is only a little bit Harder... and ya know I do believe She was RIGHT ! "