Heli or gyro?

[birdy]

Iv been lucky enuff just this last coupla days to get sum airtime in an R22, and luckier agin that ol mate had the duels under the seat. To cut a long story short, its a pice of cake. In less than 2 hours id already landed, taken off, hovered at 3" and at alt and clocked bout 1 1/2 hours S/L in sum choppy air, but there was just one little kink in my flyn. Occasionaly, usualy wen i got too relaxed, my left hand would be flyn the gyro.And we all know that ina gyro, if we want to go up, we push down or forward with the left hand, but ina R22, you pull up.Most of the time its no big deal, coz you got alt to spare, but wen id hovered for bout 30 secs at 3", i was getn too relaxed and started to push wen i shoulda pulled, agin, no big deal, but wen i landed on me G spot, i scratched the pad abit with the skid, and it wasnt real perdy.Id hate to think wot would happen if i took up helies and did sum real mustern.Now my dilemer; ???Im in the [ thought] process of buildn a machine that will basicaly be a cross between a heli and a gyro, with partial powered rotors AND collective.Which way should i have the left hand opperate, up for up, or up for down??????????????????Bear in mind that theres a few heli muster pilots pretty keen on the idea [ if its a goer], allso there will be sum gyro blokes same, so who do i accomidate for????????

[Des Garvin]

Hi Daveo, The market place is the dictator, but you are the one with the design so whats best for you.Really it is up to the PIC to tell you how they wish to have it. Cheers, Des Garvin ye old hole digger.

[NiqueNaque]

Dave,A bloke like you would probably be better off having a co-axial design - no anti torque rotor required, but as I recall Cierva tried this rotor arrangement and seemingly dispensed with it. Maybe intermeshing rotors may be the go..I"d be having your throttle on the grip - twist to get more ponies - lift for collective control but make it so that at full collective the stick is level, as opposed to raised at an angle, that way the confusion is removed as the throttle on a gyro doesn"t seem the same as your "hyro" / "geli"It"l" be really interesting to see what you come up with.Cheers,Nic.

[birdy]

Hi Daveo, The market place is the dictator, Thats the trouble Des, wots the "market" guna say?Nik, the collective wont be as per heli, but youll still hava left hand control, and it will be primarily throttle, and no, a twits grip wont work coz the throttle action will also be controln sumthn else in sync, and itll requier more leaverage than you could get witha twist grip.

[Brian]

I would tend to go with the up to go up, down to go down. Everything takes adjusting too and once you got a get hundred hours up, I reckon it would come second nature. Thats my thoughts!

[birdy]

Maybe Brian, solong as your not constantly switchn from one to the other.Iv heard it said plenty, that after a few hours, you dont have to think bout it, but thats only wen things are normal.It only takes a close shave or near miss for trusty ol subconcious to take over, and you cant garantee he"ll be flyn the machine your sitn in. And you dont know wot subby is go"n to fly till he"s flyn, and that could be too late.Id imajine [ if it ever works] that there"d be more gyro to..... than heli to..... pilots, so i gess itd be safer to have it the gyro way.Afterall, its not go"n to be as messy if you chop the throttle wen you shoulda opened it, than it will be if you drop the collective wen you shoulda pulled. :-

[NiqueNaque]

Birdy,You could have a real compound little number on your machine..How about twist throttle, squeeze grip for "other thing" and then lever for collective? Then you set it so that the instinctive thing [usually lifting + throttle] is set to respond positively to being yanked up when the pilot is in near miss / panic mode.Alternative is squeeze throttle on joystick - or twist grip with compound lever for collective and other thing, one thing to consider is that you could make the collective control work up and down for collective and side to side for the other function, I suppose you could stack your throttle on top of this too but you don"t want to make it do too many things or it could end up being the source of incidents rather than the remover of them.What is this other function any way - can it be servo"d in with manifold vacuum or some other engine parameter? Same as constant velocity prop control or similarIf you need a hand with CAD drawings I"m interested.Cheers,Nic.

[Adrian S]

Birdy,Your spot on when it comes to the subconcious taking over, I scared myself shitless on a helo flight review a few years ago when the instructor did a practice engine failure when I wasnt expecting it. I paused for a split second and had to think helo not gyro. In the R22 the blade inertia is crap compared to most gyro"s and most heavier helo"s, you get very little time to drop the collective, nose and keep the rrpm in the green with the R22.When I win lotto and build my hybrid I would like to modify a R22 with a gyro style T Bar, Twist grip for throttle and a hydraulic lever ( a bit like a bike clutch but with friction on the lever ) to control collective - aaarh dreams. Based on our discussions I reckon you might find that workable and would be an easier transition for the gyro guys. I have looked at modifying my Lonestar Helo to prove the point but I always seem to have another gyro project that takes precedence.Basically over the years I now much prefer the gyro for flying " Low & Slow " because there is no dead mans curve! Although I entered the gyro world after helo experience, in a high workload environment I think the T bar is great -everything attached to one pleasure stick!

[birdy]

What is this other function any way .............. secret.- can it be servo"d in with manifold vacuum or some other engine parameter?No, im tryn to keep it simple. [ its my idea remember, its gota be simple. ]You could have a real compound little number on your machine..Wots that mean Nik ???Dave, build it first to suit you, flog it to death during testing and then look at variations if it proves to be a marketable machine.Recon you just hit it on the head Adrian. When I win lotto and build my hybrid I would like to modify a R22 with a gyro style T Bar,Mate, iv got the controls sorted, and which apendage dose wot, [ so itll come natural for gyronuts] now all i need is the bits. :-Basically over the years I now much prefer the gyro for flying " Low & Slow " because there is no dead mans curve! There wont be one on this either, and it"ll be more forgiven than a gyro.just gota git me hands on the bits. >Iv kinda changed me plan abit since i talked to you Adrian, but its basicaly the same, just need different BITS.All i gota do is find um. :-[

[NiqueNaque]

Birdy,You understand bank interest don"t you?, it"s like a tax on a tax, that is compound tax.What I mean is a control on a control on a control - confused now?? I won"t go on.But, if you look at my prior post, it just means a lever controlling more than one thing. A bit like the joystick - it controls the pitch and the roll.Cheers,Nic.

[birdy]

Oh. :-[I thought it was sumthn technical.