Tandem or Side by Side. What is best??

[asra]

I need a bit of help.I want to build a two seat machine, but I don't know that much about tandem gyros. I would like anyones input on the type of two seat machines they prefer and the advantages of each.Ross B[8D]

[asra]

Ross.......go find one of each, pay the guy to take you for an hour or so, then you will know which one YOU prefer.just my view.......Russ....A1014 NT....gods country

[asra]

Howdy RossIn my very limited experance the tandem machine is the way to go.With a side by side if you want to fly solo you need a counter weight in the passenger seat.Not so in the tandem.Regards SonnyIntelligence is not a privilege,it is a gift and should be used for the good of mankind.

[NiqueNaque]

Why not jig a two seater so you can fly in the centre position solo?You would still need balast to correct for COG and thrustline geometry.Cheers,Nick.

[Tim]

What is the best, an apple or an orange. Both have advantages and disadvantages. Unless you are an exceptional weight pilot (either way) then there is no more need to carry balast in a side by side than there is in a tandem. The tandem must be flown solo from the front and the side by side from the "torque up" side.In open frame machines, the tandem is more wind efficient but the difference is less pronounced in enclosed machines.The side by side is more manoueverable while the tandem is less sensitive to control input. (some consider that more stable).In identical configuration, the tandem has a higher cruise speed.The side by side is more user friendly.Could go on for ever - horses for courses, and they cannot really be directly compared because they are designed to accomplish different objectives.Tim McClure

[Scott Hogan]

Hi Tim, Ross and All,To achieve 2 seat registration does a tandem need to have 2 full sets of instruments and controls?Hoges

[Tim]

Thats a good question Hoges. I suppose if the required instruments in the front are clearly visible from the back, then there would be no necessity. The compulsory instruments must be clearly visible to the Pilot in Command and the student.Tim McClure

[asra]

[asra]

Ross, consider this, The 2 things that will alter when flying a 2 seater are: 1) Human cargo.2) Fuel.Keeping this in mind, if you could combine these 2 during the design prossess, and centre both under the C of G then you would have a very predictable machine regardless of any weight changes in both.I feel the only way to do this is in a side by side configuration. Now with this I would use seat tanks / tank so both human cargo and fuel can be possitioned below the C of G.I would have a centre stick, so the machine could be flown 2 up and, or 1 up, seated in the middle, keeping in mind peddals would require some designing to allow this function. What is left is the engine, airframe, and tail. Now with the hang point being so far forward, the only configuration able to balance the machine is a tractor, by placing engine and undercarrage up front, and balancing it with the tail.One last thing, having it designed as a side by side, shortends the machines side profile, meaning the centre of pressure is easier to control and place.So the end result being a very predictable, very stable, and very functional machine, dont know why some one hasnt done it yet !!!!This is only my opinion Ross, hope it helps.[][][]Regards SamL

[asra]

Tim or interested partys I was looking to move to a 2 seat machine mainly to carry gear, fuel pump etc. Have a single seat 912 Rosco, like the machine, the way it handles, maintenance, Roscos backup. Have flown in a Raf and Owen Dull Side by side. They seem a bit heavy. Have talked to Rosco about building a tandem 912 machine. At that stage he hadnt done one but said anything is possible. Would possibly like some opinion or ideas before I take the plunge. We were thinking no duals, 70L tank under mask, front seat possibly from a trike & one of his existing pods extended, perhaps 27 or 28 AK blades, and 72in prop. I know there are alot of grey areas but do you think it could perform, in outback conditions mustering? I'm asking you Tim as you know Rosco's machines and know the conditions in these areas.Regards Deano

[Tim]

quote:Originally posted by Deanodo you think it could perform, in outback conditions mustering? Yes Deano, the gyro would perform but there are different degrees of performance and other things that that must be considered. Basically weight detracts from performance and displaced mass (longer moments of inertia) also detract from manoueverability. Even though a bigger and heavier machine can do the job, it may not do it as well as smaller more nimble machine. Having said that, 90% of the efficiency of a mustering machine is the experience and ability of the pilot.Tim McClure

[birdy]

I reckon it'd be a slow, hard mouthed pig to use for muster'n, and coz o that it'd become dangerous if you tend to get a bit hot under the collar.[but then some people call 'spotting' from 100' mustering, and wouldn't dream of yarding up or trimm'n trees. If this was the case then a tandum would be orright.]I'v used the 914 RAF on occasions for the job and altho its more nimble than a standard RAF or a tandum, its still bloody slow.Stick to the 912 Rosco...............only an oppinion from a SCG.Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.You can always get the answer you want, if you ask enough experts.

[asra]

mine is a 2seat rosco am 100kg and sit one side with out a balance weightw drewery

[Brian]

Just my opinion but I reckon side by side is the way to go Ross!!Deano, you might know David Brooks from Birdsville, anyway, he's sometimes used his C210 to muster cattle. I have a few hours up in a C210 and the controll's are quite heavy and I would not like to have to haul it around for a few hours let alone a day or so. Just making the point of difference in weight versus ease of doing a job. I had a Suby EA81 powered open framed gyro to start with then had Rosco make a single seat with his pod powered initially by a EFI turboed Suby 1800 then changed to a Suby 2.2. The open framed gyro despite having less performance was far easier to fly when working and could land and takeoff where my current gyro is stuck in sand. I wouldnt go back to the opn framed gyro as I enjoy not getting frozen in winter and heat blasted in summer !!!!Brian

[asra]

Thank you all for your input,I've worked out that a side by side will best suit what I need.My medium term project is to convert my new Rosco designed single seat machine to a side by side two seater.RegardsRossB