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G'Day Gents.Have been looking at drill pressess and notice that there is some sideways orlateral travel/movement of the drill head. Tiny but there.Many milling machines use the same column type head arrangement as a drill press, so why would they be more accurate?Further some mill machines have a dovetail or V column head arrangement are they more accurate?Looking to drill round tube and plate material a given distances with accuracy.Recommendations from those with gear and experience please.Cheers,Mitch.www.thebutterflyllc.com
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G'day Mitch. A milling machine is the ultimate drill press. It is stronger, heavier guage, more powerful has a linear cross feed (with vernier accuracy and parallel dovetail mounting slots), similar accuracy with the depth adjustment and usually has a greater choice of speeds. All this adds up to greater precision and accuracy with a plus that it is also a milling machine. There are also many attachments that can be bought for milling machines, including powered cross feed, variable angle vise and dividing head.On the plus side, they are not that much dearer that a good drill press.A good quality drill press is however good enough if hole drilling is all that is required.In most cases, these machines are only as good as the person using them. Tim McClure
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Greg,As the drilling is an engineering issue you should consider what your work is toleranced to, usually there is some + or - figure attached to the accuracy of the work, nominally for bolted connections it should be to half a millimetre. If the fit is super critical you should consider predrilling, temporary bolt and redrill and ream fits if it is so critical, in that event a drill size a mm under size will do the job, you then ream right through to get a good fit, one bolt at a time. The best way around your problem is to have a jig into which you can place the components for matching drillings, you can then have a drilling jig like Jack Allen has with a hardened holes which guides the drill into the right spot every time, then you don't have to worry about the accuracy of the drill at all.Generally if it is a one off then a centre punch well driven and a reasonably steady drill press with a solid work clamp will see the job done to more than acceptable tolerances, pilot drill the holes to ensure that a larger drill won't track with its blunt point. Don't forget that with multiple bolted connections not all of the bolts are working until the connection is fully stressed, so it may not be critical to that degree, though it is nice to be accurate and precise.I used to use a 5 tonne radial drill for repetition drilling in a boiler making shop. All we did was centre punch the one offs and jig drill the repetition work. You would just centre pop, pilot the first plate with a 6mm drill, lock the drill up hydraulically and then put the bigger drills through - up to 40 mm, the one we had was automatic feed and stop so it was pretty lazy work.Hope this helps,Nick.
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Thanks for the replies Tim, Nick.Tim, I guess to rephrase....there are a number of mill/drill machines, micr, mini and upwards to something like the Chinese ZX30 1.5 hp drill capacity 32mm, face mills 76mm and end mill 28mm, belt driven. 340kgs. Could have picked one up New for alittle over $1200 but was looking down the barrel of $570 in frieght. $570 about starting price for micro mill Then there is next one up in cost same brand that is geared head and v column, for alleged better accuracy then a stn cloumn. Do you agree with this. One sales bloke advised all column heads will move a bit, the dovetail or V column head is suppose to eliminate this.Tim please checkout the MVS 1645 from MiniTech, it has the dovetail V slide column, I was told this made it more accurate. I'd appreciate your comments again. Cheers.Now Nick,One bit in your post in particular was usefull. The Jack Allen drilling jigs. I've been down this road with members in the US and here. Ours will be machined alum bolcks with oversided holes and hardened bushes pressed in to afford long usefull life. This for mast, keel and plate drilling. What I'm in need of most at this point is accuracy through round tube and not all holes run along the same plane. Most of the drill pressess up to $300-$400 are not going to satisfy the requirement for accuracy that this game requires.Thanks.Mitch.www.thebutterflyllc.com
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Greg,What exactly are you doing?Nick.
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Come on Nick, how many times have you made reference to the fact that I am in business (what business?)......manufacturing. Previous posts and how the Butterfly/Monarchs are constructed should be teeny weeny clues...Ooops. Sorry Nick. That was uncalled for and probably not within the rules of the forum.[
)]GUESS
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]Cheers,Mitch.
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quote:Originally posted by TimG'day Mitch. In most cases, these machines are only as good as the person using them. Tim McClureVery nicely put Tim. A bit like gyro flying. You don't learn to mill, and be a great turner and fitter overnight.Aussie Paul. [
]www.firebirdgyros.com
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Tim's correct, like driving a car, using laths, milling machines or playing a musical, the end result is only as good as the person behind them, they can all be a lifetime on going learning curve.Paul, the trade, Fitter and Turner,(Fitting and Turning)Pete Barsden
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Alzheimer's disease, Musical Instrument.Pete Barsden
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Aw gee, keeping me in the dark now, I guess I can't help you then...Drilling a tube at different locations and orientations obviously.Make a jig, it will make sure you don't make mistakes provided you don't make the jig incorrectly. Make all your pieces up and make sure they all fit correctly, then you can back engineer your jig off them using a variety of techiques. Be careful with pieces that are mirrors of each other, turning the tube around will not necessarily deliver an opposite handed part.As you are 'manufacturing' the expense and time of doing this will in the long term pay for itself over and over by virtue of the lengths of tube that you don't stuff up and the fact that everything fits first time, every time, of course on the proviso you made the jig correctly in the first place.If you try to use a milling machine with an indexing / dividing head, etc, etc, you are setting yourself up for one thing, errors. They will be your errors and they will cost you. This comes to you free from my expensive mistakes in trying to be too smart for my own good. You also have to think between one step and the next, that will not only cost you time, every distraction between will mean you might make an error on the next step. If you are not a machinist you will have to learn and it is a monstorously steep learning curve, what works and what does not, the learning could send you broke.A jig will make you faster, you'll be able to either make more gyros quickly and make more money, or make more people happy with a lesser cost and more gyros. It will also deliver something else, you'll be able to take a part off one gyro and put it on another, so you will have a parts facility, that can only help you.[This consultation will cost you 10% of your profits, please forward your payment via Visa Card or Eftpos, we thank you for calling]Regards,Nick.
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Greg:I got a multipurpose lathe /milling machine here recently and have been haveing a blast with it !the lathe works great and I asume the mill does as well but I have only used it a time or two... ( no millend cutters for it yet.)to address the accuracy , my mill has an R8 tapor.... which can hold eather a drill chuck ( not the most accurate in the world) or a R8 Collet that is designed to hold the milling cutters very strongly and accuratly..... So..... on a drill press the usual drill chuck is fairly accuate enough for most any job, and you can change the drill chuck with collets as well if you desire... In the milling machine, the drill press type chuck is more of an after thought, and the collets are usually used in place of the drill chuck... because they are stronger and center perfectly.... just what you want for removeing metal sideways ! .... I got my little multipurpuse machine from Harbor freight tools .... it was on sale and a 2001 yr modle , i made a few offers and got it for $450.00 and put it on my credit card ! other wize I couldn't possably afford it ! heheheheh at the moment I am killing time till better weather gets here by makeing a steam engine .... just fer kicks !hope that information helps .C ya !Bob....." Momm'a alwayse told me , Son the impossable is only a little bit Harder... and ya know I do believe She was RIGHT ! "
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G,day Bob.How about some pics of the steam engine, Mate.Cheers.Robert DunnMackay. Qld.Growing old is good while it lasts.
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Perhaps when I get enough togather to call a steam engine ! right now , all I have is the cylinder the flywheel(scrounged from a chainsaw) the spindle it sits on and its berring block...which is now mounted to a plate ...I got'a long way to go before it'll turn anything ....c ya !Bob......" Momm'a alwayse told me , Son the impossable is only a little bit Harder... and ya know I do believe She was RIGHT ! "
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Ok Bob.Sounds like a fun project.I have always loved steam engines but never ever owned one of anydescription. Havent thought about it for years untill you brought itup, so now might be the time to get me a toy thingy, eh.Thanks mate.Robert DunnMackay. Qld.Growing old is good while it lasts.
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Hey mitchThis is a very good drill press, not too spendy and I use it as a mill also.The X Y table was another 150 bucks so I proly got 800 buck in the hole thing. You can get a good little drill mill for around $1000,00 and it would do a much better job than my setup. Check Harbor Freight Toolshttp://www.harborfreight.com/Oh well, I couldn't get the pic up. I'll send it to you by e-mailCheers SonnyIntelligence is not a privilege,it is a gift and should be used for the good of mankind.
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