Ethanol unleaded fuel

[Brian]

Couple of months ago, I tried some E10 premium fuel, 400 liters to be exact.About 15 minutes after putting in about 40 liters in E10, the fuel flow meter just stopped, yes, completely stopped and would not go despite multiple "trappings" etc. Rosie reckoned she could hear a definite change of exhaust note and I noticed an increase in fuel usage of about 15% approximately.We put probably in the order of 150 liters through the gyro before getting some new BP premium unleaded, I drained and flushed the last of the E crap out and filled up with BP, the fuel flow started to work after a few hours and is now back to normal. Fuel consumption hasnt returned to normal and it has been suggested to try new spark plugs and get the injectors cleaned which I will do.Was watching the Clipsal V8 supercars race the other day and apparently they are now using this E10 and the reporter was saying that the V8"s were using 25% more fuel than usual plus engine temps were up by something I didnt catch.Anyway, that was my experience with E10 and I will not be using it

[Mark Horan]

Brian,Ill even go one better, there is a couple of Brands of fuel that I wont use in the gyro!I have an Old Minty Skyhook in the shed with a hotted up VW motor in it (the elastic bands were changed for thicker ones). Anyway,on my airstrip at 2200 ft I had lots of trouble getting the gyro much over ten ft off the ground, until one day I put some fuel from an Australian petrol maker in it... Bloody hell! the poor little gyro DID fly, and fly and fly and fly. The point is, that there is vast differences in fuel, even though I am constanly told that "it all comes from the same place" I really try to avoid fuel from that company that uses a scallop as an emblem but I havent had a problem with Bee Pee, the one with a star or the Aussie company, in NSW I shy off the other company who always seem to have a service station owner who"s name is never Bill, Burt or Terry...and no, Im not racist, it is just that the fuel is always several cents a ltre cheaper and I can never be sure that what comes out of the pump is really what I want to put into my flying machine!Every drop into the gyro goes through Mr Funnel and the dregs goes into a large glass Jar, you would be amazed at the residue in the glass jar.Ethanol is good for drinkin, but only when the Label says Jamesons and the whiskey is spelled the correct wayDont feul with fuel.Mark ;D

[bosca]

I read and I think it was on Rotary wing forum that apart from other varibles it came down to the BTU"s.Ethonol with firewood was low whereas gas was high.Ethonal also I believe attracts more moisture form the air then guess what??

[Echo]

Too right about that scallop emblem there , big fella . I had a 5 litre Commodore that wouldnt run ( ping its head off ) using it

[tonydenton]

i drove a petrol tanker for 3 years in my 20"s. back in the simpler days and i know now i won"t buy fuel at my favourite servo if a road tanker is dumping it"s load. there is so much crap in the undergroundtanks. the draw off point is off bottom but it gets stirred up. it takes hours to settle.

[Russell]

seeing we is gas in about fuels here.........another story..When i was residing "NT", i was restricted to gyro distances by lack of fuel. [ had to carry onboard all me fuels ]Decided to have strategic fuel dumps about the top end [ lots of ex WW2 abandoned airstrips etc etc, lots of flood plains, and unused "out stations" ]Because the

[Russell]

Forgot..............new several guys who would always "dose up" their fuels with those addative thingoes, coz their fuels were out of 200L drums, shipped in the previous yr before the "wet" set in.

[Brian]

Some really good advice in these posts. If you are going to store unleaded, keep it in the shade and as cool as possible as in the sun, it can go off in a matter of a few weeks. Always use a Mr Funnel, cheapest thing being sold !! and buy a fuel drain tester [screwdriver]. Also, use the Australian made fuel additive called Flashlube, terrific stuff, I have used it for years and Birdy uses it as well.Russ is spot on, with fuel containers 44"s etc, lay on side and keep the bungs

[dg2829]

Ethanol as a fuel additive, while the fuel might be cheaper and it normally is, yes you will use more.Why is that you might ask well someone mentioned it, its the BTUs Ethanol has less BTUs than Petrol, the reason ethanol was apparently added in the first place was to provide additional oxygenation or something to that effect, however as has also been pointed out ethanol also has a very strong affinity to water and fuel injection systems do not like water in their lines, in Victoria almost no petrol station currently has E10 fuel available or apparently does not,

[asra]

Brian, If your engine is still not runnin right ,it may pay to check your fuel pressure as well as the injectors. Make sure the pump and regulator is ok. I think the mechanical fuel injection systems had problems with ethenol because of lack of lubrication. The fuel metering unit would seize. Might be what happened to your fuel flow meter.As for premium unleaded the only difference as far as I know is the octane rating which is different to the btu - the amount of energy in the fuel. I"ve always taken it that there is a minimum octane rating for both premium and standard unleaded but I dont know the btu. As far as I know the petrol that comes out of one hole may have high btu and another might be low, so they get mixed to make an average.

[Brian]

Brian, If your engine is still not runnin right ,it may pay to check your fuel pressure as well as the injectors. Make sure the pump and regulator is ok. I think the mechanical fuel injection systems had problems with ethenol because of lack of lubrication. The fuel metering unit would seize. Might be what happened to your fuel flow meter.

[aggro]

It is a little beside the topic although there has been some references to the value of "Mr Funnel".I was using a "Mr Funnel" and a plastic jerry can when both ignited. I began re-feuling by resting the full jerry can on the lip of the funnel, about half way through I raised the jerry can to check the level in thefunnel while continuing to pour. This is when ignition occured.

[gbw]

"I was using a "Mr Funnel" and a plastic jerry can when both ignited."This is weird and worrying. People fill mowers etc like this all the time. We all check the level and lose contact. Was it a plastic funnel?I do not have metal jerry cans, as static is a concernGraham

[Russell]

The fix is easy..............just as cars do, bolt on a permanent static strap.......prob solved.

[Mark Horan]

I cant imagine How Aggro"s mr funnel caught fire, unless the gyro was carrying a Static charge. if this is the case, then Ruscles suggetion of an earth strap is a good idea.I would never tip any fuel in my gyro without putting it through the funnel. I am constantly amazed by the amount of crap that occasionally tips out of the funnel after refuelling. It would certainly end up in the bottom of my tank and eventually make its way into the fuel system.Every time I do a pre flight, I drain a little fuel out of the trap at the bottom of the tank and have never found any water, I put this happy fact down to the strainer in the funnel. There are enough things to worry about when you are flying without thinking about dirty fuel when going over tiger country. A four inch nail pushed into the ground on a bit wire wrapped around one of the wheel struts would stop any chance of static discharge.Mark.