Interesting Discussion

[Ken Watson]

I fully support the CLT argument, but human error is something you cant eliminate with design. You may help it which is good, but there will always be the exceptions. Look at anti lock and vehicle stability in cars. All they did was create a greater amount of complacency. Stability is important and a forward move, but it wont solve our statistical problem. there is a little bit of cowboy in all of us. Caution is a nice word to remember before your preflight. Ken

[mad max]

Fixed wing pilots are killed too often by the wing stalling, Only good basic training can help. We allready have an over regulated country. The poor Base jumpers are banned. Lets have some freedom, if you want to place your seat halfway up your mast then do it. I am a bit sceptical about a 20% fuel saving. Iv"e found that the only students who pio are the ones who have over read the scaremongering about it. I call it the cliff syndrome and panic induced oscillation. If you want to live a safe life, stay home, and probably die of b.i.d. (bored induced disease)

[asra]

MaxInteresting comments. Good to see you aren"t sceptical about any of the other benefits. I think it"s important for students to get an understanding of their instructor"s attitude to safety. Thanks for the insight.Ross B

[tonydenton]

geez max, are you having a bad day or what ??? i personally don"t think asra is over regulated. i"ve stated before that if you have been unfortunate enough to have a bingle [ and i did where some one saw me going down and called 000] so 2 cars of police, 1 ambo,2 fire and rescue.i gave details and when they asked did they have to report it to CASA, it was just so easy to say "no" i"ll fill in my accident report and asra work under casa and all the paper wok will go through. they asked did i want lift into town, and i said no thanks i have a truck crane coming to pick up my wreckage and i"ll get a ride with him , so they drove off.......... the only other piece of paper work was the accident report to asra. i"ve never received or heard from any one about it since. that was in 2006. that"s not an over regulated sport. that"s a sport that has a board that works hard to keep it simple and fairly low cost in todays world. and reading the latest mag you can "hear" the strain of work load and reading the new "rules" they seem to be better. in my opinion.

[mad max]

I agree with you tony, I"m just trying to slow down the inquisition that"s trying to over regulate our sport. My trainer is a hard to fly higher thrust line. I believe that after a student has mastered it he becomes a safer pilot. I want to see all my students have great grand kids and die in their sleep.

[Bill Cross]

Hey Max,The process we are going through now is similar to the early days of fixed wing design. No one really understood the relationship between the horizontal and vertical stabilizer sizes as a percentage of the wing size and the moment from these in relation to the C of G for stability.Once these paramenters were established, aircraft designs flourished. The one thing we can"t take out of the flying equation (or any other activity) is the Eye Dee 10 Tee factor (spell it out ;D), but if the only gyros that are available for low time pilots , are the safest that can be engineered, then its got to be a good thing. (hopefuly the older designs will be retired or modified and not reduced by attritian) Have a look at the ABC link for Air & Space Incidents and you will see that even fixed wing"s still have trouble keeping altitude below them. : The adrenalin rush will still be there (when I was up building a lead/zinc mine in the NT, the boys wanted a ride in my gyro but it was only a single seater. I told them we could simulate what it was like by hooking a set of slings onto a plastic chair and hoisting that on the 210 ft crane we had on site and swing it around at full speed, for some reason there were no takers), lets just make our sport sustainable, by being proactive, rather than having a greater power dictate our operations to the detriment of all.Regards Crash

[asra]

I know that the CLT are inheritenlty more stable, however there is no reason why a HTL shouldn"t be. Yes you look at the science and do the pencil demonstration and you can see why a HTL pushes over when the rotors are unloaded. Perhaps the efforts should be going into a minimum size and the position of the H stab. I personally don"t like the idea of having a H stab in the prop wash as the air is dirty and turbulent reducing their effectiveness. This probably dosen"t matter so much in a CLT machine but having a nice big H stab in clean air as far back as possible on the keel can make a HTL machine rock solid providing it is designed well. This is as long as you don"t try doing warp speed in turbulent air and stay within the machines capabilities. there is a good article in regard to this in the hornet gyro plans about the positioning of the hstab. Just something to think about. thie link to hornet is below, you just have to download the plans first.http://www.gdt-systems.com/body.aspRegardsTim

[aussie_paul]

.... but having a nice big H stab in clean air as far back as possible on the keel can make a HTL machine rock solid providing it is designed well. RegardsTimUnfortunately Tim, not at zero airspeed and full power.Aussie Paul.

[tonydenton]

i"ve been wondering about the phrase" power before attitude" and how it fits in with this topic of ppo.any one be able to to help me out on this . my flying has changed in th last 100 hours or so and i will get a proper flight review and some times i selectively change my attitude before power. it"s what feels right for the manovoure.

[asra]

i"ve been wondering about the phrase" power before attitude" and how it fits in with this topic of ppo.any one be able to to help me out on this . my flying has changed in th last 100 hours or so and i will get a proper flight review and some times i selectively change my attitude before power. it"s what feels right for the manovoure.

[tonydenton]

sam, so does P.A.T.reduce the chance of ppo and or make

[asra]

sam, so does P.A.T.reduce the chance of ppo and or make

[Brian]

Good to see constructive and positive attitudes being talked about and there"s no one here spitting the dummy which is excellent !! Well done guys & girls and your comments are well received Peg, and it would be good to have more girls here on the forum cause its their hubby"s /boyfriends /family that if it all goes wrong, they are the ones left behind to sort the mess out.I have said it before but will say it again, I used to fight PB tooth and nail on the HTL issue but the statistics plus flying

[tonydenton]

once again thanks sam. i know using

[tonydenton]

one of the reasons for bringing it up is while reading the mag [or trying to read] through the articale about the british accident in the 70"s.[lots of big words the whole way], it seemed to me that he never did