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I have followed with increasing dismay, the recent outpouring of vitriol toward a highly experienced, current CFI following his explanation of an incident that clearly could have resulted in his own death. He was certainly injured and the now published photos of the stricken aircraft demonstrate the grahic seriousness of the event.It is to our personal and ASRA's complete shame as an alledged supportive organisation of our sport that they have failed to publicly silence this completely innappropriate commentary prior to an official investigation being completed and officially tabled.I see no evidence on this forum of ASRA official public support for this man's family who must have been terribly traumatised at the news of their father, brother and husband's, near fatal experience testing an aircraft for someone else at great personal risk to himself.That this scenario would have quantum significance in reminding them of the loss of this CFI's own father in an aircraft is something these self appointed expert commentators should contemplate right now.The only voice of reason has come from across the water from banaari.I note that the CFI was absolutely the only person on board the aircraft at the time who can expain the causal train of events.This trial by public email forum before the official investigation has been completed is extremely abhorrent and unfortunately a developing trend in this country where we do not value our tall poppies at all. What a great lesson this is for all those ASRA members considering becoming Instructors or Technical Advisors in the future. Don't get anyone offside within your representative organisation because when you risk your life in something someone else built and should that something come to grief for whatever reason, expect to get instantly lampooned by your peers, be pressured to financially compensate the builder (who only risks their money by securing your backside in their aircraft)and be relentlessly challenged on your interpretation of the entire event.What a great disincentive now for all ASRA members to report any incident at all knowing this reaction could be waiting for them also.Where is ASRA executive in all of this?There are well documented obvious personal differences pre existing this event between the ASRA board and this CFI. We, as members cannot possibly know all of what has transpired in the past and the veracity or otherwise of the current debacle. Nor should we! The CFI concerned has certainly not always helped his own cause but he is human like us.Is it really beyond the scope and depth of experience within our executive to appoint someone to personally intervene and constructively work together with this highly experienced CFI and attempt to resolve any issues the executive may have now or in the past with any matter, including this one?Is their absolutely no one within ASRA willing to show understanding of the broader issues at stake to help this talented man and his family survive this distatefull public humiliation?ASRA executive must be extremely naieve to imagine this public vilification of one of their own CFIs will go unnoticed by those in CASA, RAAus, GFA or the broader media. Is this really what you wan't?Convenient it is,that this whole tawdry saga has certainly steered member's attention away from the Cooma nationals after Ozy Woz asked his serious questions 7.07pm 4th march. I also note the CFI in question provided salient comment 6.44pm 2 days later.Tonight, I cannot find any ASRA official comment within the ASRA information section of this forum as to the lifting of the MBZ status at Cooma.I could not find any advance notam within Airservices website tonight re this MBZ to CTAF determination. Perhaps I am looking in the wrong places.As an ASRA member I expect our executive to adequately resolve these difficult issues with their well respected years of organisational experience.To the woefully maligned CFI, I trust you will understand that while you are not perfect,(and you alone know the train of events first hand),no Australian deserves this type of tar and feathering from a select few which reflects badly on us all as an organisation.Mike
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I am a complete outsider, but as such, I think I can remind youof some facts, you duly avoid in your comment:1. The forum discussion was started by the CFL himself, not anybody else, posting a postive report with pictures on how brave and great CFI he is, not mentioning that he eventually crushed the gyro (If he had kept silent about the event and waited forofficial investigation, probably nobody would bother,but he preferred to to stir the case up by himself)2. The CFI repetedly LIED about the event on the forum3. The CFI didn't report (as PIC) the event neighter to ASRA nor to CASA, as obliged to.4. The CFI left the scene of event without securing the evidence for accident investigation.5. The CFI has a long record of neglecting the rules and procedures of ASRA and CASA, and the last one was probably the straw to break the camels back........just my 2 cents...
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Quoting PTKay:"...posting a postive report with pictures on how brave and great CFI he is..."PTKay - there's absolutely nothing self-promoting or boasting in Paul's posts about flying the LW. People would be advised to read for themselves.I think we should take the advice offered by you-know-who on the US forum, and hold our counsel until after the ASRA investigation.John
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[V] I tell you one thing.....some of these postings re PAUL are bordering on defamatory, hope you guys have got plenty of $$$$$[
!] ASRA......how about a directive to stop this kangaroo court to allow a properly conducted investigation, maybe from outside ASRA ....independant aye[
] Yes, the guy's had previous "please explains", but they are irrelevent to this sorry incident. Just my thoughts......RussRDC
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Where is ASRA executive in all of this?Do'n their job,by the book, and not on a public forum.I can just imagine wot you'd be say'n if they was ere, tak'n sides now, before a conclusion.And as Ptky said, he started the rot by lie'n.Its a funny thing tho, the subject has almost died a couple o times, but then gets a new breath.............. by the Bruty backers??????Most of us have shutup. If you want it to stop, then stop bring'n the subject up again, for Paul's sake.Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.Ingratitude stinks.......be generous carefully.
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Dave.....fair go.......your last post re this subject was 2 days ago.....2 days ago.And prior to that you were well into it. What's this crap about it dyin, and others revitalising it again and again, and it's the "Bruty backers???????" Pull ya head out of the sand mate. I for one, am not defending the man, I'm trying to keep to the big picture here, not the personalities involved. Also how about the INNOCENT until proven guilty thing, that's worrying me a tad, coz it ain't happening here. There is 2 or more issues here......the accident....and then the aftermath senarios. Sorry mate, but you are not helping, you are doing a good job to keep the fire raging, reread your previous wordings etc,all through this subject.Just my view........RussRDC
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Very well put indeed Mike.Daryl Patterson
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Righto, I'll shutup then.Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.Ingratitude stinks.......be generous carefully.
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Guys, ASRA are are very competent even though they are volunteers and all have a long asociation with gyro's here in Ozz.They have some office bearers of very impressive qualifications and have access to good legal advice. The investigation will be done in a competent and professional manner and I imagine a report will be made available when the thing is completed.I personally would be dismayed should there be any ASRA comment on this or any public forum till the matter has been investigated and finalized !!! Anyone familiar with CASA would know how they work and we pay them to be like they are. CASA have been responsible in finishing the flying careers and business of quite a few aviators. ASRA has gone out of its way help in any problems where they can and its probly a good lesson to us all that if we do have a problem, call ASRA first and work through them.In my short time [10 years ] one name has seemed to pop up every once in a while in some problem regarding regulations or some contraversy. In this time, I havent been aware of anyone else incurring any wrath from ASRA or CASA in the gyro community. I'm sure that most of you are aware that we all have to be careful in what we say and do in the public eye.Russ,CASA presumes guilty first then they investigate.Its normal practice to cancell /suspend licences first.You never know how far you can go, till you get there !
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Now we are getting some good discussion here, I accept the CASA guilty thing, but I don't accept when a member of ASRA is down and wounded, that some within this membership, attack him, or whoever it may be, like a pack of wild dogs, trying to tear him limb from limb, all of this without knowing the facts......yet.I repeat.....I am not taking sides here, I don't want to witness a kangaroo court in session. Fairness and justice, YES.Just my view......RussRDC
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Mike,Why did the machine crash? Who did the preflight on a newly constructed aircraft built by a novice and amateur builder? Who checked the swages?You're dreaming. Why didn't you post this on the right thread?The heading of the thread you refer to was "Apologise", three times - why - what motivated that heading? To boot, if it hadn't been posted, I certainly would not have known what had happened and as such would have had nothing to say of it. Why does anyone post on this site? Anything put here is for public comment, and that was made, if you don't like the public comment then don't post here lest you suffer the variances of public opinions of your actions both on this forum and in flight.ASRA and its members do support PB, otherwise he wouldn't be a CFI, in fact, if it weren't for ASRA he might not have been able to enjoy the run he's had up until now, ASRA is responsible for the legalisation of gyro flight in Australia, where does he pull his pool of students from? Is he on the web site - yes, do we refer students to him - yes... in the face of this you can't say we don't support him.I believe the board is doing what it must with its members interests being considered as a whole, I don't know why you are knocking them.Hope this helps,Nick.
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I totally agree Nick.Paul posted it and therefore has to sit back and take all the positive and negative comments.If he only wants positive comments maybe he should just e-mail it to all his friends and that way he will not get the negatives.Who knows what happened to cause the incident exactly,only Paul.But it is common knowledge that the correct procedures were not followed after the incident and of all people Paul, a CFI should know CORRECT PROCEDURE.I for one don't want the full might of CASA raining down on our sport but if people that should know better keep cocking up like this then who knows what will happen.I am sure that ASRA do not act without thinking (long and hard) before they act on any matters that may impede a member from enjoying their sport or making a living.If you do the crime be prepared to do the time...
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If it had been anyone else then we would have seen the full wrath of Paul upon them, so let him cop it sweet. His bagging of people is continual, and usually without evidence. I have no pity for him or his ways. He does not know what diplomacy is and so deserves none.Let him speak for himself. KenP.s. If you blokes had any balls you would not use alias'.Look at some of his previous posts and then make your judgements. His statements towards me were defamatory, but that means nothing to me. A true man will tell me to my face. Can not waite for that day to arrive.SPOT ON NICK AND MARTY.Forum is for open discussion. He knew what he was doing when he posted it.If you don't want it discussed then don't post!
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Yes, you are right... this is a legal question !As I understand, PB is making his living with gyros.So EVERTHING he is posting, or doing, or saying is MARKETINGhis activity !!!Publishing only nice side of his activity is customer fraud,and (at least where I come from) is subject to prossecution.Do you really think, that posting under the title:"Well!!!! I have done it.... "and stating in the very fist line:"I accumulated enough hours to understand the differences, as well as the good and not so good (to me) attributes of a tractor gyroplane."is not self-promotion ????And this is exactly the thread and post that started this mess, and it is PB who started it, not anybody else....(you need a proof, here's the link: http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3952 )Yes, I also quit posting, I understand, when somebody cries: "SHUT UP".But what should happen (somebody killed, injured) untilyou all understand, that aviation is something else thanjogging or fishing, and much higher standards on humanintegrity and formal procedures shall apply.ASRA is to protect the whole gyro community (includingall members), but also protect the whole communityagainst some members, who jeopardize the prospectsof flying of the others.....just my 2 cents, this time last...
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Hooray Ken, Nick & Marty. I didnt read anywhere on the posts that suggsted an 'attack like wild dogs,tearing him from limb to limb'. It is a forum on a topic that Paul instigated himself. I said it before - wrong or right , lets be thankful there wasnt a fatality.X
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