The Unfortunate Australian way

[asra]

C'mon people - this is generating more smoke than light.The matter's under investigation by ASRA. Let them get on with it.Contemplate the next flyin, and quit before you really DO have scores to settle face-to-face, generated entirely by keyboard warfare.[Edited: This was mainly in reply to Ken's last post]John

[Ken Watson]

John, fair enough but when you get some experience you will understand where everyone is coming from. Mine is personal and was instigated by PB. Go back through the website and I'm sure you will see my side of things. Sorry I just remembered you won't find anything because he took it off after he was told to by admin. I'm sure somethings will still be lurking around. Nice site you have . Good luck with your building but be wary of some of the information that is passed around. A lot of the experts don't even fly.Ken

[Mark Horan]

Dear Micheal Airboats,How noble of you to stand up for Paul in such a staunch way. I hope you are related.I would prefer to shake someones hand than spit in their eye, but those who live by the sword die by the sword so I dont think paul is ready to slit his wrists just yet.I see by your profile that you have 5 posts up so I can only imagine that your exposure to this forum is slight. I too, used to think that Pauly was hard done by, as, by his own promotion he is highly experienced,and no doubt he is too.(at leading with his chin)Im looking forward to shaking Pauls hand at Cooma next week, although depending on what he says at the time will determine wheter or not he will need to wear safety glasses.Mark.

[PTKay]

Mark, I will not be there, too far []but, AMEN, to what you wrote...

[airboats]

Thankyou to all who have commented herein on my original thoughts posted a few days ago.Thankyou especially to the many private emails from the partners and children of Pilot fathers who were upset reading my description of the accident and further saddened at the acidic aftermath on this forum. Without exception, all were concerned when their parent flies.I will endeavour to reply to you all privately over the coming days.The real truth of the matter is that their appears to be an acceptable culture inherent within our organisation (and others) of trial by media prior to release of the actual facts by a recognised authority ie in this case the ASRA operations manager in due course, within his incident reporting responsibilities. My question of where is ASRA executive in all this was simply to ask for a salient comment from our leadership to be inserted into the ASRA information section asking contributors to calm down and await the official incident report. I did not ask for an official position statement or explanation of the current executive internal process surrounding the incident as suggested by some readers.Just some appropriate leadership when the situation so requires. Sadly this did not happen and it was left to others to suggest same.Even more unfortunate is the newer development of involved parties now airing their versions of conversations again via this medium. Gentleman please; for your own and the rest of us responsible members sake, please converse privately. The He said, She said soap opera episodes only fuel the fire. I sincerely hope that when this matter is heard at Cooma within the coming days, there will be strong leadership and personalties left outside the room. This will be difficult, but as our chosen delegates we are entrusting you all to do your very best for ASRA and the individuals concerned.Should there be no existing provision for effective and active ASRA mentorship of all levels of Instructors, could I be so bold as to suggest we set the example for other organisations by doing so?With the absolute paucity of Instructors nationwide we can ill afford to lose any. The codicil here is we as members nor ASRA executive should condone proven infringement of the accepted regulations at any level or we instantaneously lose our professional credibilty.My suggestion is that this may also be an organisational failure in that adequate support systems for Instructors, especially CFI's may be deficient.How is it that this CFI for so many years has managed to train so many students, previously attain the highest position within our organisation, recently train overseas students within their country of origin and regularly share his technical developments for public scrutiny on a plethora of occasions, and yet still fall fowl of the governing body.I repeat, is their no one within ASRA prepared to work one on one with this CFI (and others if need be) to address any imperfections and establish a mutually beneficial and harmonious relationship that will strengthen the organisation and instill confidence in the new breed of yet to be trained Instructors waiting in the wings?The answer of course must be yes as the alternative is unforgiveable.To finish this thread and I will comment no further on this topic, for those eager to rear up like funnelwebs, call out right now to your wife and or child and ask them to read my opening and closing comments. Now get them to read what you wrote and ask them their thoughts.Mike

[NiqueNaque]

Mike,You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

[Echo]

C'mon Nick ! You were going to say "..horses ass..." , go on spit it out. I'm sure the moderator would remove any thing he thought was stepping over the mark , maybe even this. It is a public forum , after all. By the way Mike - my wife & son both fly with me ,& have read whats going on but cant make heads or tails of your postings. Sorry ,yours was a generalised comment.X

[pocky]

MikeI can see where you are coming from and yes I feel for his family as well. but if you take the time and go back to the friday of the accident and read what has been posted both here and on the american forum from that date till now you may appreciate or gain some insight to this whole sorry saga.If it wasn,t for the gyro pilots that help Keith load his lw the following morning to take back to qld, this accident would possibly not even been reported except by keith.I know i have now put my neck on the line but at no time have I vilified the person who was the pic.So please don,t condenm every person that is trying to sort this mess out,as there are people out there that do know more but are letting asra to do its job.If i wasn,t so closely involved i probably would have your same sentiments,and also giving the person the benefit of doubt.boundry rider

[asra]

Dear Micheal Airboats,How noble of you to stand up for Paul in such a staunch way. I hope you are related.I would prefer to shake someones hand than spit in their eye, but those who live by the sword die by the sword so I dont think paul is ready to slit his wrists just yet.I think you summed MICHAEL up beautifully there. Noble. His is the kind of support anyone would hope for in such a situation. You say that as though it's a bad thing - noble. He is gutsy enough to come here and support someone who has been roundly condemned by those who, at the first sign of blood, jumped in to devour him. And in doing that, Michael invites the same treatment. Well done, Michael. Do you really think, that posting under the title:"Well!!!! I have done it.... "and stating in the very fist line:"I accumulated enough hours to understand the differences, as well as the good and not so good (to me) attributes of a tractor gyroplane."is not self-promotion ????Actually, no. To the casual observer, that would come across as someone stating the facts of what they had done. For example, would you call this:I sat at my computer and wrote a response to both some positive and negative postings on the ASRA forumself-promotion? No. I'm just telling you what I did.However, were I to add:and it was an absolutely FANTASTIC post and you should all bow down before meyou might have a legitimate argument. So, when something so straightforward has that sort of slant put on it, it speaks to pre-disposition of that kind from the get-go.(you need a proof, here's the link: http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3952 )Yes, that thread tells me that Paul flew the machine and elaborated on that and, after being pestered for more information (by those who have consequently demonstrated how a mere taste of blood can lead to a slaughter) based on hearsay and second-hand stories. And that there were mitigating circumstances as to why the full story could not be told.And, finally, as indicated by the quotes up there, showing the different angles that could be taken by the reader AND writer, Paul said he "did not" crash the machine. He, and he alone, was at the controls and irrespective of what everyone else makes of it, that was his opinion and how he felt the incident played out. You believe what you want to believe. But if you want to have an informed decision? You wait for the facts and you make sure you have the full story before you start passing your judgements.Or, you can can go off half-cocked and take the opportunity to get that vendetta out there and vent all those frustrations and issues you've got, because, hey, here's the PERFECT chance for it!And that's how it looks. To the casual observer. Selene.(Tired and distracted by other reading...no My Heart Will Go On Renditions, though. It hasn't come to that.)Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit.

[asra]

And, finally, as indicated by the quotes up there, showing the different angles that could be taken by the reader AND writer, Paul said he "did not" crash the machine. He, and he alone, was at the controls and irrespective of what everyone else makes of it, that was his opinion and how he felt the incident played out. I think i'm confused??? is the gyro still flyable? answer;no, so what would you call what happened to it??? is this going to be another play with words, if it wasnt a CRASH, what was it???Mark

[Echo]

One post is signed 'Selene' her next is 'Emma'.......?

[Brian]

Selene or Emma? The reason why PB was getting asked "To fess up " was that plenty of people already knew about what had happened and HOW it had happened and yet we had a person saying that that nothing had happened which nearly everyone here in Ozz knew was not correct so the pressure was on, give the dog a sniff of a bone and whats he going to do ??Goes to show that something as old and as traditional of 'telling the truth' would have averted the whole saga and basically,the saga was written, produced and acted out by one PB. Yes, I have told lies and half truths before and its cost me dearly, thankfully I learnt the error of my ways.There is no one that would have been pleased to see Paul get injured or hurt in any way much less what else you mentioned. No one was pleased that Keith had one wrecked gyro either and especially someone who had just built their own gyro and hadnt even learnt to fly yet and its testimony to Murray who started the project to get Keiths gyro rebuilt and all the other's who have contributed so much. Most of the contributors wouldnt have ever met Keith. These are the same people who you say were judging Paul so harshly. There is no right way to do a wrong thing.You never know how far you can go, till you get there !

[Ken Watson]

I'm still surprised that our avid poster still hasn't posted in the accident and incident postings. I think that says it all.KenSelene Talionis is a made up name from Lex Talionis meaning the law of revenge and the greek goddess Selene. Come on, don't take us for fools you gutless wonder. Your no journalist. Print your real name, or shut up. I love people who take the moral high ground but lack the morals to be truthfull themselves. By the way , my name is Ken Watson, not some made up load of crap. Ken

[NiqueNaque]

Go Ken...
..........

[Brian]

Thanks for the explanation Ken re Selene, sheds light on the post !!You never know how far you can go, till you get there !