Calidus

[GraemeMonro]

damn i been so good ohhhhh well,

[MilesW]

Incidentally, doing a 180* turn with an engine failure on climb out is not a recommended procedure, and can only be successfully carried out under certain conditions, and in a gyro you don"t often have time to weigh up those conditions.I agree that the 180 is not recommended, but I don"t think flying it straight into a big mob of boondies is either. Correct me if I"m wrong though.The time clock on the video shows that in this case there was time to do almost anything except what he did. He already knew the wind and the condition of the strip behind him, so not a lot to weigh up.Miles

[blakemorem]

Yeah it"s easy for me to have an opinion sitting behind a computer, it seems he had some time not sure about distance back the strip or the terrain in between and it was probably down wind; But i think i would have just automatically turned back, maybe i would have done more damage, But once you"ve made your decision you are pretty well committed. It"s just those rocks anywhere than the rocks. I"ll look at the video again...

[Tim]

The don"t turn back "rule" is assuming that you are climbing out off the end of the runway and in most aircraft (especially Gyroplanes), the angle of descent is far greater than the angle of climb. Combine this with the height lost during the turn and it is obvious to see that there is no way that you could make it back to the strip with an engine failure.However, I did mention that there are exceptions under the right conditions (and pilot experience).

[RickE]

Your right Tim there is always exceptions to the rule. In my case I crossed the end of the runway two up at about 20 foot AGL then started climbing for about twenty seconds before the engine went quiet. I reckon we were back on the ground in about ten seconds, contrary to what Bones says I don"t believe anyone would have made it back to the field.

[blakemorem]

Yeah it"s all perfect hind site but those seconds did count and options close. The engine was surging too you can here it running after the crunch, I couldn"t hear the starter motor so I"m guessing it was surging. I"m also guessing his altitude was about 300 ft. And there was a flat area below to the left. Given the opportunity he probably would have done things different, it"s my worst fear at take off though. Just one thing when i do outs i can do a turn and back stick to nearly o air speed and pitch down into a nice 55 knot decent. I appreciate what you"re saying though and I"m gunna have a look at it next flight and see what altitude you burn on a turn. This is good stuff and i"m not arguing with you this is what we need to think about it could happen to any of us. I"ve seen pilots do short base final and spot land with very short distance and I remember Ian out at Watts bridge do exactly 180 Turn and land with engine trouble but not outage just coughing and spluttering. As i say it"s all perfect hindsight. The decision would be automatic no time to think, it"s like that auto pilot running in the back of your head, My instructor always said don"t muck around you haven"t got time. Anyway i got your point on no turns, you recon you burn too much altitude? Maybe my outcome would have been worse.Mike.

[blakemorem]

Sorry Rick i jumped cue. Mate you had no option at 20 ft that"s my worst fear,it must have scared the crap out of ya, Brace Brace... any Damage?

[birdy]

Its good to actualy see an upside in this thread, as opposed to the same disscussion on the yank forum.Noone here has said he did good, coz he didnt. The only good he did was not kill his passenger, out of shear luck.But the biggest danger in flyn gyros is the pilots ignorance of his machines capabilities.Noone on the yank forum has suggested turn,n back soon as the donk surged ( at bout 1.24). He was still over the strip for crist sake.And just for the record, a very experianced FW musterer wanted me to demo the flyability of quiet gyros.So, as i was cruisen DW at bout 15", i said you call "engin dead" and ill show you wot happens.He jokeing replyed engin dead rite then, so i chopped it, wheeled it round and spotted it faceing the wind. Then he said he called then asa joke, but was glad he did, coz he thort id f*** d it up for sure.Point is, from the hight he had at 2;24, he had ample time to do a lazy 360, even ina glorified bathtub witha passenger.But, from wot iv read recently bout the euro instruction sciene, he no dout was taught to fly it like a f****n FW with rigomortice.

[blakemorem]

Ah the Marsta Farter Thank"s Birdy I was waiting for your response and yeah you gotta get off that other rotary forum it will give you brain damage. Just goes to show how much we all need to think about this stuff and keep it fresh and Ya can jamm the factory flying euro bathtub stuff too we"re not all idiots in fancy flying machines and at least you can wash yours you might see whot color it is too hey it might look pretty too.

[blakemorem]

Sorry Birdy I forgot the "with all due respect thing", and I"ll jump Que here to show you where i"m at Ive seen Pretty ones,Gorgeous titaniums, Turn key brigade, factory pilots, Euro pilots, Flying bath tubs,Euro bathtubs, Pretty stream liners,Factory monsters,on and on. I guess it"s like driving down the street in a Ferrari and being called a F@#$king wanker. We are lucky to have you in the fraternity don"t get me wrong, we seem to get categorized and yeah some do deserve this reputation like bank managers driving an Aston Martin you do think what a waste. I"m still paying off my Euro Bathtub and it has to last me a life time and no damage no risk flying. Just think we all get categorized in the idiot arena too easily...Hey i don"t care rolling with the punches remember and enough A**licking you know where I"m coming from, I haven"t got big hours but a long time to go hopefully without incident and competent flying. Try being like a good co pilot and say beers on me or gee that was a good landing or I"ll take the fat one, you know some encouragement.

[MadMuz]

The wind dictates if you can do a successful 180 in a gyro..... I wouldn"t be trying it in over about 20kt headwind because of the altitude you will need to pay for some airspeed into some sort of flare with a 20kt+ tail wind.... but if it is a zero wind or less than 5kts or so it might be worth a shot.... when you get that deafening silence, you have to think pretty quick and make the best of what you have left yourself with. I will say, the guy in the vid didn"t do too bad a job with the crap situation he left himself to deal with. I know for sure, with water at the end of the strip, I personally would have wanted to have the blades up to a decent speed way before he pulled up on the keys THEN pre rotated, then commenced his takeoff. Looking at the strip and what is at the end of it, I would have liked to have had a heap of altitude by the end of the strip, so the area to look for an outlanding spot would have been greater. His poor decision to line up with blades stopped, then prerotate and procede was the start of his bad management.... by the time he lifted off he wasn"t that high over the end fence leaving him a small area where an outlanding could have been carried out with a better outcome. So, imo, apart from the bad decisions, once airborn and he had the flame out or loss of power, he didn"t do too bad a job with the actual unplanned touchdown.... I mean a really disasterous pilot would have rolled it in a real ball on the rocky terrain..... this guy managed to keep it upright-ish... the blades were still going around and someone said the motor was sort of running.... not to mention he and the passenger were ok... I reckon he did ok. (he could have done a hell of a lot worse)

[birdy]

Unbelievable >

[blakemorem]

Yeah Muz, go for altitude over tiger country always think of contingency but some times unavoidable, that pilot just sat there and run out of options, practice engine outs, it"s a Gyro not a titanic, you can throw em about a bit, that pilot was just very lucky as he just went in i know what he was aiming for, that strip of beach just ahead he just ran out of altitude.Just shows you really gota think don"t just sit there.

[RickE]

Its good to actualy see an upside in this thread, as opposed to the same disscussion on the yank forum.Noone here has said he did good, coz he didnt. The only good he did was not kill his passenger, out of shear luck.But the biggest danger in flyn gyros is the pilots ignorance of his machines capabilities.Noone on the yank forum has suggested turn,n back soon as the donk surged ( at bout 1.24). He was still over the strip for crist sake.And just for the record, a very experianced FW musterer wanted me to demo the flyability of quiet gyros.So, as i was cruisen DW at bout 15", i said you call "engin dead" and ill show you wot happens.He jokeing replyed engin dead rite then, so i chopped it, wheeled it round and spotted it faceing the wind. Then he said he called then asa joke, but was glad he did, coz he thort id f*** d it up for sure.Point is, from the hight he had at 2;24, he had ample time to do a lazy 360, even ina glorified bathtub witha passenger.But, from wot iv read recently bout the euro instruction sciene, he no dout was taught to fly it like a f****n FW with rigomortice.Am i understanding you Birdy that from 15 foot you did a 180 degree turn and landed without any power. I would have thought that would not be possible without eating a fair bit of dirt.Not something us average pilots should try i would think.

[Disco]

Rick go on youtube and you can see birdy do it and land on his pad out front of the hangar.