Possible error in your statement, Paul.

[asra]

Paul, I'm not wishing to be picky here but I seem to recall you being very vocal about flying CLT machines with H Stab's only. So when you say "I never knock what other people fly", I have to question your accuracy there.TedSorry this should have gone as an additional post under the Buy Aussie thread. Could one of the 'Powers that be' please relocate at their discretion. Thank you

[asra]

Ted, I think you have gotten yourself confused, join the club. That statement was in relation to open frame light weight hoon around gyros compared gyros for sedately mature (old) people like me who have hooned enough and want a Fairlane not a mini Cooper S.Also some people like trikes and powered parachutes. They are not for me but I don't knock them.I cannot stand idly by while newbies fly, or consider flying unstable, and dangerous to themselves, gyroplanes. Particularly if "old timers" are encouraging the newbies the wrong way. That is when I become vocal Ted, and I don't apologise for it.Fortunately the message is well and truly out there now. More and more pics in the magazines these days of new people to the gyro world building safer gyroplanes.Aussie Paul.[]www.firebirdgyros.com

[asra]

Sorry Paul, but I'm not confused at all on this subject. You did say "I never knock what other people fly", and that is not true. Perhaps you could have worded it better.Ted

[asra]

Yes Paul old chap your gramer is terrible but the message is clear all flying things good some gooder than others.Ted without criticism we do not improve & seeing something dangerous & saying good one mate is stupid & if criticism hurts your feelings its still better than hurting your bones

[Brian]

I'd leave the "old " part out of that statemnt Paul !!!Paul, you also know full well that there is no reason why a student pilot couldnt learn to fly a Rosc gyro, now it might be more dificult to fly than a CLT but its certainly not dangerous. The many thousands of hours in service testifies to that.If it was dangerous Paul, I certainly wouldnt be alive today as well as many other pilots, we who fly Rosco gyros arent all super gifted pilots.I read stuff that newbies say they want and if they want CLT, then thats good but HTL needs to be explained corectly as well to anyone who asks. Its just not good enough to can HTL without.I too get vocal and dont apolagize for it !!!Brian

[asra]

Brian and all, Just curious. I haven't been on this forum long so I may have missed a thread that answers this question. Have there been any recorded PPO incidents in the Rosco or other HTL gyros in OZ?Thanks,Brad KingN6372KMad Max II LTC

[asra]

G'day Brad,Firstly welcome to the forum. It's my mistake that lead to this post being placed here. I had been in the "Buy Aussie" thread, when Mr Bruty (Paul), made a post which contained a misleading statement. Paul been a very vocal support of CLT when added to H Stab type gyros, and its my opinion, that some of his argument has included the knocking of other people's aircraft. Hence my concern at his staement... "Back to the reason for this post. We have different requirements at different stages of our lives. I never knock what other people fly, it just doed not suit me at that time, BUT if they are enjoying their choice I wish them enjoyable flying."Paul's contribution is always welcome, but I believe that it needs to be taken with a little bit of salt from time to time.Ted

[Brian]

Hi Brad, welcome to the forum. I'm not aware of any PPO's in any Rosco machines BUT I dont know for sure. ASRA would have this info or Tim should know the answer to that question so help Tim or Lewella !! As far as other HTL gyros, once again I'm not sure but I reckon there was a RAF fatality last year but no final report has been issued.Brad, I would like to re interate that I'm not aginst CLT gyros and I'm well aware of the US forums views on CLT. I would like to see a fair and balanced view on particularly, the Rosco HTL gyro as I do fly one and I know of at least six pilots that use Rosco gyros for station work.Brian

[asra]

With regard to CLT, as a student pilot I have now flown in 7 different machines, namely, 3 RAF 2000 variants, a side by side Rosco, a Magni, a Sicamore and a GHS design. I experienced porpoising on two occasions, once in the Rosco and once in a RAF. Both machines required constant control imputs to control the porpoising effect, both machines were not CLT. However! The Magni, Sycamore and the GHS were not CLT but had generous horizontal stabilisers and were very stable, as was Paul's RAF hybred. I can only conclude that an inexperienced pilot should train in a CLT machine or one with a great big stab, pilots with thousands of hours can fly anything and are therefore out of toutch with the newbies!! ....Just my two bob,s worth.Jonem

[asra]

Toutch.......a more touchy feely kind of touch...for those who don't know!!!Jooonem!

[Tim]

quote:Originally posted by jonemI have now flown in 7 different machines, namely, 3 RAF 2000 variants, a side by side Rosco, a Magni, a Sicamore and a GHS design. I experienced porpoising on two occasions, once in the Rosco and once in a RAF. Your basic assumption is correct Jonem but just to be fair I must state that in most cases of machines that are known to fly well, the porpiosing comes about from the pilot "blocking" the natural stabilizing effect of the offset gimbal head. All machines have a different pitch frequency oscillation and if the low hour pilot is out of phase with that frequency, then PIO occurs.PIO can occur with a CLT machine.I still however agree that your basic assumption is correct.Tim McClure

[asra]

Brian if you fly an open frame next time you fly put your feet up on your instrument pod we have found this gives about 5-10 knots more speed with no stick or power changes for this reason my next gyro will be a CLT more for drag Efficiency than stability as I find little fault with the Rosco I learnt to fly Butch

[birdy]

He he, and i though i was the only clown that flys bout with me feet everywhere but on the foot rests.BTW, thats the zackery same reason i droped the TL on the ferel, to get rid if the artificial weight.Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.You can always get the answer you want, if you ask enough experts.

[Brian]

Butch, is pretty hard to get your feet too far away from the rudder pedals with the Rosco pod on ....unless you were very double jointed Jonem, you forget that there are a whole bunch of us who amazingly enough, learnt to fly in a HTL gyro without too many problems cause if it had been hard, then I would have given learning away.The point I'm trying to make is that it is not imposible or unsafe to learn or fly a Rosco machine.I agree that a CLT or near CLT gyro should be far easier to fly and my new gyro will be near CLT.Brian

[asra]

Hi Brian, Quite right, I am sure that having flown the early machines and survived, anything else is a piece of cake! I have a very nice Rover 110 that I used to salivate over when I was a young man and to drive it was a dream... Now it is like driving a truck compared to modern cars..The point that I was making was that I did not experience any porpoising in the first machine that I flew, or rather controlled...that was the Magni, not CLT, but a big stab and long moment arm.cheersJohn