Test bed

[asra]

G,day.On the PRA Forum the blokes have been discussing fuel quality.The quality of our petrol is probably worse than theirs and is likely to get even poorer.If I had a Gyro with a Rotax 912 - 914 engine I would use only avgas in it.The magni M14 with 914 is basicly a single control thingy with apillion seat for hitchikers.My point is, it is designed to carry a bit of weight, two up, so,I reckon it would be a good testbed to experiment, with puttinga Thielert 1.7 diesel on board. They weigh about 130-40 pounds.I dont know what a 914 weighs with all of the plumbing etc, butit would be interesting to play with.Expensive, certainly, but there are many other expensive toys on themarket and I would druther play with one of these than one of them.Cheers.Image Insert: 67.96

[Brian]

The petrol quaility [or lack off] is one reason why I like the Suby 2.2 EFI.I have seen on hot days, the Honda 600's[ ground crew] being near impossible to start and miss firing etc but my old Suby just cranks up and doesnt give a bit of trouble !! I'm not so sure the 912's are so forgiving !The contents of the water trap reveal this watery like substance thats dificult to describe except to say its not water nor is it fuel.Brian

[birdy]

Modern diesel is go'n the same way as petrol, its all cr@p.I'v never had a porblem with either the 912 or 914, both have electric fuel pumps below the tank to prevent vaper lockn and the ferel also runs the mechanical one for good measure. In over 2700 hours i'v never had a problem with keepn the fuel up to these machines.I do burn premium tho, its better on the general health of the donk, burns less per hour and with the 'flash lube' additive stuff, it burns 25% less per hour than it dose on the regular [ auto poison] and with better performance.If i go over the boundery, i'll burn wot ever they'v got, which is usualy the cheaper cr@p, and i'v never had a problem with it either.PS; its not the fuel Brian, its the f%$#^ hondas.Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.You can always get the answer you want, if you ask enough experts.

[Scott Hogan]

Hi Birdy,Are you sayun that ´Flashlube´ gives you better fuel economy... by 25 poosent? I´m there in that case! I thought you only used it in LPG conversion engines.Hoges

[asra]

WOW!!!! 25%. I gotta have some of that snake oil!!!!!!!!!!!Scott that torque tube got posted yesterday.Aussie Paul.[]www.firebirdgyros.com

[asra]

G,day.I dont think there is much wrong with avgas or jet A which theThielert burns. Its probably consistent quality aound Australiaand besides, Qantas burn it !If you are not mustering and using large quantities of fuel, howmuch more would the good stuff add to your annual fuel bill ?My interest in putting the diesel into a Magni is more to do withthe exercise rather than about replacing a crook engine, which it aint !No, the mountain is there to be climbed and I think it would be anabsorbing project.My choice of the Magni is because it is at the top end of the marketand thoroughly sorted and proven over many years, its not as ifyou would be designing from scratch like Paul is doing.I imagine that he is finding a great deal of pleasure in doing itand I support him.I am to old to start any projects like that but would like to messaround with a diesel and jet A Gyro.Another thing is, the Thielert is already here in Oz and is beingrefitted into some 172 Cessna's.They are only 130 hp but are turbo charged and have a constant speed prop and Fadec, so the 172's gain in performance rather than lose, and dont forget that there are many pusher configureations on GA aircraftso you should not have to reinvent the wheel.You could probably even fit one to a Firebird if you thought aboutit. Wouldn't that be a nice VH registered Jittny !Cheers.Robert DunnMackay. Qld.Growing old is good while it lasts.

[asra]

PS:another thing about 912-914 engines.There are thousands of them fitted to Experimental and GA aircraft around the world and have logged hundreds of thousans of mostly trouble free hours using avgas. there are also thousands in the ultra light catergory but I dont know if they are burning AV orMogas ?Avgas is being phased out and will cease to exist. Some say as soonas ten years ?Jet A, will be around for yonks tho.Cheers.Robert DunnMackay. Qld.Growing old is good while it lasts.

[Adrian S]

Guys,I just thought I would jump in here and add that ROTAX 912/914 factory prefered fuel is MOGAS. If you use AVGAS regularly the factory has advised a reduced TBO and gearbox problems through lead deposits.I run a 912A in my fixed wing and it purrr.....s on MOGAS and my latest gyro runs a 912S and purrr.....s on MOGAS as well. I only use AVGAS if that is all that is available at the time.Birdy,Tell us more about the Flashlube - what led you to start using it? There is no doubt it is a proven upper cylinder lube.Adrian

[Michael]

Hi Olbod,Weights for the Magni M-16 as follows. all the specifications are on the website www.magnigyro.com.auWEIGHT Empty weight (914) 270 Kg (595 lb.) Empty weight (912 ULS) 265 Kg (585 lb.) Maximum take-off gross wt - USA 550 Kg (1212 lb.) (Useful Load - USA 280 Kg (617 lb.) Cheers, Michael.

[Brian]

I have been using Flashlube as well for a couple of years now but have no way of telling if it really does what its supposed to do but after reading up what its supposed to do, then I had no qualms about spending the extra money and using gallons of the stuff , specially when you cost the price of new valves etc !!Brian

[asra]

Thanks Michael,I dont think that the extra weight of a Thielert would be muchof a problem in that case.Adrian, thats very interesting and I certainly dont doubt what youare saying but I dont know of any airports around the place thatsell mogas on the field ?There are many GA flying schools here in Oz that use the Rotax enginein their training aircraft and I think they are using avgas ?Basair for instance have just taken delivery of the first two ofsix new Tecnams and I am presuming that they will be using avgas ?I wonder what mogas they were refering to, surely not in a worldwide context, because there is most likely some witches brew's outthere.Its very interesting, What figure do they quote for TBO ?Cheers.Robert DunnMackay. Qld.Growing old is good while it lasts.

[asra]

PS:The mogas that I am refering to is your everyday unleaded or premium petrol that we buy at the local service station, whichI believe is pretty poor quality.Adrian is this the stuff you are burning in your aircraft or am I missing something ?Tar.Robert DunnMackay. Qld.Growing old is good while it lasts.

[asra]

G,day.I tried to phone Bruce Stark this morning but no go, so I spokewith the guys down at Basair at Bankstown. We discussed Rotax enginesand what fuel to use. They had noticed the recommendation that Adrianmentioned. So they contacted Rotax direct and were told that the912-914 was was approved to use both 100 octane avgas or 100 octaneunleaded pump petrol, both with the same TBO. They still recommendthe premium unleaded petrol but they themselves use avgas !Weird eh.I think that I would use avgas because of a more consistant mix andmore importantly in our case we could stock avgas on the propertyso that the Mooney and whatever GA aircraft that I buy can berefueled.I guess it comes down to personal choice but careful maintenancewill be the deciding factor insuring reliability.Cheers.PS:Whats flash lube ?It looks like I am going to have another good crop of Mangoesagain this year. Yummy.Robert DunnMackay. Qld.Growing old is good while it lasts.

[birdy]

Sorry bout the delay, forgot i posted that. Scott, the 25 poocent is with the combination of premium with the FL, as opposed to regular engine poison.[2 hours 15 to a tank on the old crap and near 3 hours now] Flash lube make additives for anythn that burns.The cost of premium + FL per liter works out cheaper than run'n just regular coz you burn so much less,[ if you double the dose with a tank o regular, its nearly the same] your not feedn ya donk poison and it performs better.[ another bonus is everythn in the camp runs on it, gyros[ any engine] catchers, bikes, the fire ona cold morn'n.]I found the 912 will run on anythn flamable, solong as you USUALY run on good gear.I started addn FL when the old super ran out of supply, and the Austrians recon their donks prefer to feed on super[ leaded], and when sumone makes a donk like the trusty 912 they obviosly know wot they are talkn bout.They said don't regularly burn avgas or unleaded in the book, so i don't. It won't kill ya if you feed it sum crap now n then to get outa trouble tho.Don't know much bout FL but since iv been use'n it iv had better fuel economy, oils cleaner at the 50 hour change, plugs last forever[ the currant ones have gon past 400hours] and it smells better.[ not to mention the ferels gon way past 2000 hours without a hitch, so i gota be do'n sumthn right.]Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.You can always get the answer you want, if you ask enough experts.

[asra]

That is good info Birdy. Thanks.Aussie Paul. []www.firebirdgyros.com