ASRA'S HUB BAR LIFE

[asra]

Has asra implemented a life on all makes of hub bars of 800 hours?could somebody that know's more about this (the terms and conditions)please advise.deano

[NiqueNaque]

Deano,Go to the home page and then follow the links to AD's. Read it for your own benefit.http://www.asra.org.au/airworthiness...ectives.htm800 hrs @ 330 RPM x 60 = 15,840,000 rotations and as many cycles on your hub bar. Think about it.Cheers,Nick.

[asra]

Found the new a.d. Finally. Firstly i am having trouble understanding how we can have 2 standards(ie. Mandatory life) on the same component made by the same manufacturer. If we are going to implement these mandatory lives on components (which i am not against) it needs to be across the board simply because in both facits of the gyro movement be it coastal (recreational) or outback (station work) there are pilots that are professional(careful and conscientious) about what they do and some are rough as guts. I think some people are ilinformed of a lot of outback pilots as it even says in the a.d. Of rough bush strips. I have flown from grass strips at watts bridge and rhilestone and these are far rougher than 95% of strips (graded roads and smooth clay pans) that we operate from. It worries me to think that people could be drawing conclusions of bush pilots from the likes of the recent photo on the back of the gyro news of birdys "rough as guts" machine. Yes birdy your machine looks like a s**t box... And is doing nothing to help our image.if asra is going to implement mandatory lives on components it needs to be done properly and on all high cyclic components such as masks, rotor bearings, hub bars and blades of which are already in place by most bush pilots. However there needs to be more consultation with manufactureres and pilots as to decisions as we still have to be self regulated simply because asra does not have the money or resources to travel around and police these implementations.only my opinion.deano

[Tim]

G'day Deano. The AD does refer to all aluminium hub bars, not just those from a particular manufacturer.You are correct though that most bush pilots would treat their gyros better than many social pilots, and that is why the term "high energy manouvers" was used, to try and cover most extreme uses, whether it be by bush pilots or social pilots. ASRA does not intemd to Police this AD - this will be up to the conscience of the operator.Birdy's gyro may look rough but I would fly it before I would fly the gyro that does a social outing once or twice a month and clocks up 10 to 20 hours flying a year. Many social gyros are technically not good, even though they look OK to the uninitiated.To para-phase Banjo:-They had natty little gyros, that were nice and smooth and sleek,For their cultivated owners only flew them once a week.Tim McClure

[asra]

Deano, Good point about strips such as Rylstone, it is rough as guts.What sort of life do you expect from rotor bearings, blades and mast. Do you replace them at regular intervals.Tim"Grounded" is the term I would use for a machine that is not clean.My powers of X-ray vision are not as developed as some, so I'd have to give it a good clean before I even inspected it.Ross B

[birdy]

I don't know wot picture your refering to deano, but any pic of my machine will make it look like a **** box.Do I give a stuff wot it looks like?, obviosly not, I'v never washed it, why should I?, it won't make it fly better or more safer, infact, I reckon the 'never wash'n me machine' is one reason why its so reliable.I'm not responsable for any of the publicly avalable pix of my machines, no one could be held responsable for sumthn like that??Do you suggest I put a stop to any public veiwing of my machine coz it looks like a pice o **** and mite entice some weekend worrier to duplicate? Be reasonable!!You go ahead and fly a spiffy new look'n machine and don't you worry bout the quality of the components its made of, or the maintanance sched, you just make sure you keep it clean..........if thats your highest priority.If asthetics are your main concern, you shouldn't allow yourself to fly, you'd be a danger to everybody on the ground.""Grounded" is the term I would use for a machine that is not clean."Why it that Ross??Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.You can always get the answer you want, if you ask enough experts.

[asra]

[birdy]

I'm guna argue this point.Firstly, the preflight.[this'll p1ss alota people off coz it'll sound irrisponsable.]I don't preflight.Well, not the way others do anyway,. Why, coz it can lead to complacency.If I did a set PF every time I flew I'd end up in a robotic rythum and not see a thing. I know this coz i used to do proper PFs and missed a critical crack in an engine mount part.[crist knows for how long. And it was only a matter of time before it let go.] Who picked it up? Someone who'd never seen a gyro before.Obviosly I do check the machine over thouroghly, but not routinly.Secondly, every ttime you wash your machine it gets wet. Moisture gets caught in every nook n cranny imagineable, an causes corrosion. I'm lucky, I live in the deasert and theres no moisture to be concerned about, so why would i invite trouble just coz sumone said my machine's a grot.Also, any movement between any two parts that are bolted together will make 'witness dust'. You could be wash'n it off. On top of that, if theres an oil film over the movement it'll collect this dust and it'll stick out like dogs b@lls.Cracks are more visable in oily dust than on clean material.So it's not that i'm lazy or have no pride in my machine[ on who's health my life depends], It's coz i'm a realist, and i'm not plan'n on kill'n meself just yet.I know your not av'n a dig at me Ross, but I thought I'd chuck this SCG's two bobs in."AND IS DOING NOTHING TO HELP OUR IMAGE"[BTW Deano, who's 'image' are you concerned bout?]Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.You can always get the answer you want, if you ask enough experts.

[asra]

'You go ahead and fly a spiffy new look'n machine and don't you worry bout the quality of the components its made of, or the maintenance sched, you just make sure you keep it clean...if thats your highest priority.Birdy, I won't argue too much as you have stated your point but I have to comment on the spiffy new machine bit. I can guarantee my old Rosco has more hours on the clock than yours and yes it is very clean.Ross is right. If you keep a machine clean you notice things. Not with water but spray and wipe and a cloth as an old mustering pilot (not bold) told me this when I started. I have nearly 10,000 hours in log books and all of these mustering and under rotors. When I talk of our image I'm talking of the Gyro movement in general and I suppose mainly pilots who operate in rural and remote areas as they seem to make up a very small part of this forum. In our part of the world Ross, it seems pretty accepted in my type of machine that: Rotors and hub bar do: 1200-1500hrs Masks do: 1000hrs Rotor bearings do: 500hrsThis obviously varies between pilots but when you talk amongst yourselves and the manufacturers its amazing how often these figures pop up. Rusty recently told me that with the engine he was running (some variation of Suby) he had thought it necessary to replace the mask at 500hrs due to some fretting.Don't take anything too personally Birdy. It seems we were just HEDJUMECATED in different schools.Only my opinion.Deano

[birdy]

Duno Dean, I was 'hedjumecated'[ or so they called it] in QLD. Coulda been the same school/ jail .............or is that gaol?I know where your cumn from Deano, and yeh, i can get away with a crappy lookn machine, coz im' the only one lookn at it.And I dout anyone on this forum or readn the mag would take a SCG too seariously.BTW, I'v seen a couple o them high hour muster'n machines and its a credit to you blokes the way you can keep um lookn spiffy. Mine was, when I built it.And outa interest, wot do you pack your new rotor bearings with?[type of grease].As for the general image problem, I reckon the only solution is to allow nature to take its corse and they'll die out ................ slowly maybe, but they will.Anyone who sees my 'grot' are more facinated that it actualy flies than digusted by its apperance.Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.You can always get the answer you want, if you ask enough experts.

[Brian]

Boy Deano, I hope you were smiling when you took a swing at Birdy !!Birdy, I have to agree with your pre flight idea. I like to have a checkover of my gyro when all is quite and no distractions which is usually not the case before you go flying, usually its all go and you know that the sooner you are on the job, the better.When something cracks, its usually felt straight away by vibration, sound or feel. Thats the time to get on the ground.Brian

[birdy]

I don't recon he was swing'n at me Brian, I think he's just jelous.[}][wot of I'm not sure????]Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.You can always get the answer you want, if you ask enough experts.

[Brian]

Deano, there's a lot of variables to take into account, like the way you fly and the way you go about maintenance. I'm only a low timer compared to you but things like the rotor bearing are easy cause you can hear/feel as soon as they start to get slightly worn. Now rotors, I have been told by a maker that his rotors are good for at least 5,000 hours but the hub bar needs to be are replaced at approx 1000 hours but he has rotors/hub bars that have 2500 hours and have no problems. I reckon that self regulating maintenance at this stage is the way to go unless there are significant problems arise otherwise we will be like GA and you know where they are !!!!Brian

[asra]

Birdy I think you hit the nail on the head when you let us know another person had discovered a defect in your gyro that you had not seen. I think it is good practice to encourage anyone and everyone to look closely over your gyro whenever they have an itch to do so. It is just incredible what other eyes see on their first inspection that can be invisible to ourselves. A brief pre-flight inspection does make me feel better though when I am in the air and know I have cast an eye over and yanked to and fro the critical components that can bring you undone.Pete

[birdy]

The best time to do a PF i'v found Pete, is when i'm have'n a breather, kick'n back with a durrie an coffee with the mob blocked up by the ground crew and i'm alone, lay'n in the shade of a rotor blade.This is the most effective time for me coz me brain is in neutral, just gaze'n at my trusty little poor man's chopper.Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.You can always get the answer you want, if you ask enough experts.