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I"ve been reading a lot about the pitch stability issues with low and high profile gyros.
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What you say has a lot of merit and I reckon could be worked upon. I am pleased that you put the last sentence in !!Just my opinion but I wonder if a pilot who is taught to fly a CLT [safe gyro] then they should not be able to fly a HTL gyro without an endorsement. I would think a pilot who has learnt on a HTL should nearly be able to fly anything. Just a thought but us higher hour pilots who fly HTL gyros also learnt and survived flying those same "dangerous gyros !!
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Gwb
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Having a HTL, LTL or CLT doesnt give you any real idea of a gyro"s stability. Gyro stability is made up from a number of design features working together to create our so called stability.
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I know what you are suggesting Mitch, but I beleive it would be too difficult to be consistant. A few otherthings to consider.We would need someone, or persons to test and grade our machines. To me a particular machine might seem to be on the margional side due to design and handleing, but to some one who fly"s a HTL machine it might be considerd just fine. The other factor would be temperature, and wind. As you know a low rider HTLM with a small HS might fly fine on a dead cool day, but continually PIO on a windy thermally day. I think the idea is great, but seems to be too many variables to make it realistic.MY 2 CENTS............... ;D
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There"s a lot of value in that 2 cents worth !! ;D ;D
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When I first got into Gyros I remember reading the line "Gyrocopters are the motorbikes of the sky"I think that the anology is the best one ever made.The argument of high, low or centre line thrust is lost when one considers the aplication of the design of the machine.I have ridden bikes all my life and I am still to find one that will excell as a trials, trail, road and Gp bike. Just as there will never be a Gyro design that would be a world beater in all weather conditions or flying styles.The nice little machines that are fun to "flick around" are very uncomfortable in lumpy weather and are considered unstable and dangerous by those pilots who are flying the equivelent of a full dresser electraglide, who are used to a big fat heavy machine that turns like a truck.Brians comment regarding High hour pilots on stable machines is really valid. I would suggest that these guys are like the fair weather bikies we all see hanging around the cafes on their shiney new harleys, they all have lots of hours under their belts, but no experience.Every machine that flys through the air will do it very well providing its design parameters are not exceeded. It is not the machine that will get you out of trouble......it is YOU,THE PILOT.I would hate for our flying organisation to have to introduce conversion courses for pilots to be able to fly differing styles of gyro, the basics of flying all types of gyros are all the same, all that is required is a steady hand and a bit more altitude to convert from one to another.Not withstanding the difficulty in finding enough instructors to do basic training anyway! Another thought I have had for a long time is that, it shouldnt matter if a machine is high or low thrust line, really the matter of stability comes down to where the centre of gravity lays in relation the the thrust. A
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An adjustable centre of gravity would make the whole trust line debate null and void.Well put Mark, This has crossed my mind many times. :
The way I see that this MAY BE OR COULD IT BE possible that the rotor head could be adjustable for and aft some how in the rotor head/mast cheek plates. To my simple mind alloy materials would have to be replaced with a heavier steel componant to resist the fatigue factor. So now we have a weight penalty. But just how much? Over to the engineering types now for some possible answers. ??? :- 8)
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OK Fella"s I must say I agree with Brian, Sam and Marks comments.I have been thinking some more on this and trying to accommodate GBW"s original proposal (a newby"s perspective can be as valid and refreshing
) and it does get messy the further we get. ???Mark"s analogy to the Cafe Riders is a good one (lots of hrs and nil experience ) the other suggestion about being able to vary the V C of G with respect to the thrustline.Larry Neal has done this with his Golden Butterfly"s. There are four separate (may have more now) positions available to counter pilot weight variants, by pulling a pin/bolt and placing it in the available hole positions to suit.We have the same type of thing ( not easily/quickly changed) with the Monarch/Butterfly with 5 sets of head plates the use of which is Dependant on pilot weight.
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Guys, IMHO if all gyros were to have the thrust line to CoM offset within + or - 50mm and had a reasonable set of tail feathers then there would be no problems changing from one gyro to the next. Maybe better still is to have each and every gyroplane meet a set of stability standards.The control sensitivity and Yank and Bank responses would be different BUT it would not take long to adapt to those when the machine is stable.The scenario is quite simple. There is no need to have any unstable gyroplanes registered and or flying.Aussie Paul.
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An adjustable centre of gravity would make the whole trust line debate null and void.Well put Mark, This has crossed my mind many times. :The way I see that this MAY BE OR COULD IT BE possible that the rotor head could be adjustable for and aft some how in the rotor head/mast cheek plates. To my simple mind alloy materials would have to be replaced with a heavier steel componant to resist the fatigue factor. So now we have a weight penalty. But just how much? Over to the engineering types now for some possible answers. ??? :- 8)
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Paul you are quite correct in regard to
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Mark, this is a good discussion. 8)IMHO variation of the offset between the CoM and the thrust line with fuel loads etc does not change enough to worry about. It only needs to be +/- 50mm from CLT and have effective tail feathers. Very simple. The KISS method.Aussie Paul.
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The centre of gravity can be moved easily by moving the seat forward or backwards, up or down.who wants to spend time calculating CLT when someting could be designed to be in flight adjustable? mark.Hi Mark, if someone was to make a variable CLT machine, then instead of varying the seat/fuel position (up or down) why not change the angle of thrust by tilting the engine. Maybe even an inflight adjustable HS to keep the machine flying level regardless of load.Its an interesting topic, but I must admit, I do agree with Paul B, and wouldnt bother with such a concept.
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Well isn"t this amazing.
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