Safe operation

[Ken Watson]

What constitutes a history of safe operation? I Got 3 different answers from 3 TA"s! Can you get a machine inspected by an aeronautics engineer and will ASRA accept this. Its a bit disillusioning to get a TA inspection by someone who in reality has no mechanical expertise and cant even weld, but will question your construction techniques when you are the one with the credentials. The almost destruction testing is ridiculous if your parts are copies or built more substantially than already accepted parts. My tail is a copy of an accepted tail, but built stronger . The test is irrelevant. If the TA"s are so wise then we should expect that engineering failures on their machines are non existant. My most memorable

[Tim]

G"day Ken - how the hell are youHistory of Safe Operation;- At least 5 units (identical in all significient respects to that being tested) that have accumulated over 100 hours each, one of which must have over 500 hours, without any deformation or failure which could in any way comprimise the safe operation of the aircraft. I believe the rules for imported machines is that they still have to comply with Australian rules, or be subject to specific limitations or restrictions on their registration, and possibly also their operation.Once a machine has "passed" Australian registration then any identical machines from then on would be eligable to apply for "Type Acceptance".I do not know about your other questions, perhaps someone else more current in this field will help you out here.

[Russell]

Give "Ops manager" a call............waddles will be only to happy to give you the EXACT info you need.[ good point re non trade guy giving welding advice............mmmmmmmmmmm ]

[asra]

Hi All
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[Des Garvin]

Ay Mark don"t be to ard on the little bloke, he"s finding out just how much work is involved in being a skirt oops I mean secretary of ASRA. Des the stirer ;D

[Russell]

Oye Des.......ya mongrel

[Russell]

Sorry...............oye marko...........your ph blown up, or we gota ph you only ;DLucy is beside herself here............fruits and veges cheap as chips, farms have these stalls at their front gates, take what you want and toss

[asra]

Hi All
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[Mark Horan]

Glad to see we can all stay on track when someone Introduces a new thread......This one is fairly important and Ken makes a good point.Safety is critical in any machine that is capable of leaving the ground and the near destruction test for say,, the tail assy on a two seater leaves me in a bit of a cold sweat.What do we do? load the tail up with bags of cement until the tail fails or it doesnt. If it does fail, its back to the drawing board, if it doesnt fail how does the builder or the TA for that matter, know If during the test, a stress developed that could become a problem in the not too distant future?.I have built a few machines now (and eaten some dirt) and have found twenty different ways of doing the same thing, every time I look at a different part of the machine I am working on.The problem with building machines at the present time is that, one must contact a TA by phone to disuss the building or wait for the TA to do a final check at the completion.Why on earth isnt there a standard accepted published manual that provides the correct information to builders on accepted components and their manufacture that make up the critical parts of a gyroplane?The manual could describe accepted minimum material types, accepted connection methods,accepted engineering details and perhaps a few case studies of accidents or failures caused by poor workmanship or unsuitable engineering details.For those of you who dont belive there is a need for this? Has anyone ever wondered why it takes so long to build a gyro?Maybe the Ops manager could comment?Many thanksMark.

[Russell]

Arrrrrrrrrrrrgh.......mark, sorry.......not rich, and can be shamed..........gyro still getting built, the wait will be worth it. ;D ;D ;D

[Ken Watson]

Thanks Mark,

[dg2829]

Ken, why 300hrs?not even CASA Experimental certification requires that. They only require 40 hours for a machine without a certified engine and 25 hours for a machine with a certified engine this is for either kit or even for a one off built aircraft and before anyone pokes holes in this, yes there other requirement as well I am only mentioning the flight part.

[welli]

Suggest pre-course reading material for an ASRA TA course is FAA Publication, Methods Techniques and Practices Aircraft inspections and Alterations AC43.13-1b/2a.But that reading certainly isn"t confined to people planning on doing a TA Course. And it may answer many of your questions.

[asra]

G"day Ken,If you want to spend 2 or 3 days of your life (and not waste a minute), sign up for one of young Aidy"s TA courses when it comes to a town near you. You don"t have to become a TA. But it"s an absolute blinder for anyone who wants to build their own gyro, and as a bonus you can help out others if the nearest TA is a long way . I attended a couple of years ago for 2 reasons. 1 is that there were no TA"s within a full day"s return drive from here ( remembering that you need a couple of inspections during the build). The other reason is that I was intending a rebuild and some mods, and I wanted to understand exactly what was kosher (and not find out after I had built it). The trip to the course paid for itself many times over.Two things are really worth having for anyone building. As Welli said, the FAA pub, and also the 2 seat standards are very usefull. We tend to pick up experiences as we go through life. Some of those experiences help clarify things, often forever. Many years ago, I was laying bricks in Melbourne. I had my own team, and we undertook a small contract on a site controlled by the BLF, which is something I rarely did. But I was glad that I did on this occasion. I made contact with the BLF union rep before we started. My best labourer had a problem with his feet, in that they became badly infected with a severe rash if he wore safety boots. I thought that if I approached the BLF bloke, he might give us a dispensation. The BLF bloke was a big old bloke with "wise" eyes, and he looked at me for a few seconds and said to me "Son, he can wear anything he likes, but if he gets hurt, YOU"LL have to prove that what he was wearing is as good as the accredited safety wear". After about 5 seconds of staring at the ground between my feet, I looked up and said to him "Thanks mate. He"ll be wearing his boots".A couple of days later, my labourer dropped a blue-stone pitcher on his foot, and despite the safety boots, he cracked a couple of bones. Not a word was said. By anyone, including the Workers Comp people. If he had wore his thongs, I"d still be in jail, and still be paying.I suppose the moral of the story is that if you follow the spec, the problem is not yours to explain if the thing fails. If you diverge, then the part (or machine) may be infinitely better than the spec, but if it fails then the onus is on you to explain (and its hard to explain how it"s better, once it has failed).BTW, the labourer worked for me for 6 years, and wore thongs for all of that time, except the time he got injured. And it was the only time he got injured. Go figure that.CheersFred

[birdy]

Go figure that.Thats easy Fred.The best safty devise ever used is that grey blob between y ears.I think most know i only ware chineese safty boots, for the same reason your offsider did.Ona 48C day in this sand, it dont take long for the blood to start boiling in ya feet if they cant breath.And as far as foot safty goes, i loose more bark off me hands than i do off me feet, coz my grey blob is always lookn out for my feet, and i tend to put me hands in places i shouldnt.Only time sumthn droped on me feet was the drop door on the crate. Soon"s i pulled the pin out, the old slag on the other side kicked it and smashed it on me foot. Coupla broken bones. But thats orrite, bones grow back. I know of plenty of blokes round ere with buggered feet coz the never moved their boot before the moo steped onit. : Iv never had anythn step on mine. I know, i know, the law is an ass and common sence dont equate in their thinkn. And thats the main reason i dont employ anyone. :-