Wavers

[bones]

Ok not sure if this is the right area but here goes,As i approach becoming an instructor the one thing in my mind is, what protection do we as instructors have, i am guessing that as board members and such RIGHTLY are/should be covered from legal action, what protection is there, from the type of people whom dont take responsibility for their own actions???

[NiqueNaque]

Bones,It is actually a "waiver", you"ll find them in almost every hire contract you enter into.So, in that vain, have a look at a hire contract, even for something like a power tool and it will give you a rough idea of what you need to say in any such contract. In essence the student is "hiring" you and your machine for the duration of the flight, so it may be a hire "damage waiver and indemnity" that you require. It may be pertinent for you to consider calling the whole thing a hire charge, if not then a hire charge for the use of the machine and instructor hire for yourself if there are separate usage times to be had.Do not fail to consult with a lawyer about this, especially a negligence specialist, as this is the point on which you will be sued if any. Others may exist but their use is minimal compared to the challenge of negligence.Suggest you discuss with Chris McKeown 0262575255 as per his ad in the ASRA magazine - see last pages - he says he is a barrister and may invite such entertainment, there is certainly no harm asking him, being a barrister could mean his advice will be far superior to a lawyer, a good kick off. I wouldn"t stop at one source of advice either.Another good point to start from is the law society in the state you are in, they usually have a list of specialists that do this sort of stuff and most offer a free first consultation over the phone. Hope this helps,Cheers,Nick.

[asra]

G"day Mark,You are on the first step to "the house of giggles" with this stuff. A waiver is a usefull start. But it doesn"t matter how well you write it, you can"t "contract out" negligence. You need to be able to demonstrate best practice compliance with respect to instruction and maintenance. Adherance to "best practice" or the industry standard takes the pressure off you from having to demonstrate what you have been doing is correct. But you must be able to demonstrate "adherance". That"s what every SAfety Management System in the country is about. You need to set up a paper trail that demonstrates compliance with the standard. It probably won"t be the student that gets to sue you. It"s generally the bereaved widow/mother that gets lead along by the lawyer while she"s wondering how she"s gonna meet the mortgage payments without the bread-winner. At the very least, set yourself up with auditable check lists for:[*]Maintenance;teaching procedures; andcomprehension[*][/list]



of teaching by the student.So if you"ve got a waiver ( which demonstrates that the student knew that what he was getting into was inherently dangerous), and a paper trail to demonstrate that you took all possible care and were not negligent. AND DON"T TEACH/DO ANYTHING FOR WHICH YOU ARE NOT AMPLY QUALIFIED. Won"t guarantee that no-one will try to sue you, but will make all think twice before trying. The above came from the lawyers. I was secretary of the local boxing club, and that is what we instituted

[bones]

Nic,Unbelievable but i have read the add from Chris McKeown, and until i read your post i never gave it a thought to ring him, hmmmmmmm go figure, some times its hard to see the forest for the trees, Thanks.Fred also good advice and i had already given thought to N O K to sign off on any thing like this, damn it makes it hard when your trying to grow the sport and there is what appears to be a big black cloud of this subject, damn i wish they were no law suites for this type of thing, make life a lot easier..Mark

[NiqueNaque]

Mr Roberts,You seem to be blessed with a good deal of intelligence.My commendations on your excellent verbage.Cheers,Nick.

[Mark Horan]

Also.....From my scuba diving instructor days......A waiver is a nice piece of pink paper, however, in Australia, it is not possible to waive your right to sue! (particularly in NSW)Yur best defence is duty of care, providing you fulfill all parts of a sylibus for learning and dont stray too far outside and you can prove compentcy then you shouldnt have much to worry aboutMark.

[Adrian S]

Bones,The other piece of advice we can give you is be on top of the ASRA paper work regarding your students, yourself and your gyro!. I know it sounds obvious but too many dont do it well enough and then expose a chink in the armour for the lawyer/CASA to start work on.Adrian

[asra]

Mr Roberts,You seem to be blessed with a good deal of intelligence.EtcNick.NickFunny thing to say about a man that has been married 3 times, but thanks anyway. ;D Mark,You"re only going through what every pony club, sports club, little aths, etc in the country is going through. I"ve been to a few coroners courts and the judge generally looks favourably on the bloke that has the pieces of paper showing he busted a gut to make things as safe as possible. The blokes that come off worst are the ones that can"t prove it, or who deliberately try to dodge responsibility. Likewise, lawyers trying to sue you are looking for weaknesses in your systems. I"m not sure whats in the ASRA instructors kit, but it could be cost effective for a collective of instructors to get a package together of legal requirements, and books printed of checklists, etc. If it"s already done, then cancel the last bit.CheersFred

[NiqueNaque]

Fred,I didn"t say which part of you was blessed, nor did I apportion which "brain" had control over your actions.I"m going to a blokes funeral in perth saturday...

[asra]

Fred,I didn"t say which part of you was blessed, nor did I apportion which "brain" had control over your actions.I"m going to a blokes funeral in perth saturday...

[bones]

hmmmm i see with in 9 posts it went from waviers to trying to tak some guy out of being married interesting how this works sometimes

[asra]

hmmmm i see with in 9 posts it went from waviers to trying to tak some guy out of being married interesting how this works sometimes

[rotor]

hmmmm i see with in 9 posts it went from waviers to trying to tak some guy out of being married interesting how this works sometimes

[Waddles]

Bones,The following is an extract from the paper which explains why certain changes were made to the Trade Practices Act. You might like to look this up during your research." 4.

[asra]

I think you are right on the money, Al. (on both points).1. Get legal representation (take your waiver along to be checked. Lot cheaper than getting one written); and2. Be able to prove "due care and skill". That involves the paper trail previously spoken about. A "Safety MAnagement System" is a must. If you want some assistance with that, give me a yell.CheersFred