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Birdy,I'm not trying to stir the old pot here but, to observers on the ground at Easter, Bones' Beast (tall tail) seemed to do everything you asked of it without drama. While your breathtaking flying display is still fresh in our minds, which manoeuvres did you find you had to work harder to perform in the Beast than you would have in the Feral (allowing for the fact that the Beast was new to you)?Most of us noticed that you removed the H/stab from the Raf when you flew in the comps. Do you only install the stab for long-haul or do you fly with it locally as well?Congrats on the X-country and those great photos.Regards,daj
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Was waitn for this.Good points David, and i'm glad to see sumone noticed and is askn inteligent questions.Yes, Bone's machine did have a stab and it would be pretty powerful too given its size and placement. However, i don't know wether its set at a negative incidence or not so i couldn't tell if it did much at SL as far as PIO goes.[ i didn't fly streight long enough to feel much at all]As far as manovering goes, there was a slighjt drama. For the weight and power of the machine, the rotors were too big and slow to be able to throw it round with any real viger. It has good float and inertia[ good for mustern good cattle] but if you wanted to sink the boot into it[ needed for cheeky critters], the rotors wouldn't let you coz they couldn't keep up. Not that i woulda sunk the boot into your machine bonesy.
My ferel isn't capable of anythn more than bones's, but it can pull moves at a faster rate, solong as its rotored to suit.Given the fact that it is overrotored, the HS wouldn't hinder its manoverability, coz its setup as a low AS, floaty, gentle mover.As for the wasa, yes, i did take it off, coz if your tryn to put it on a boat, it gives you more scope to compencate for wind gust changes.That stab was fitted just before i left ere, and is effective for long laps. But it dose take sum of the 'nimbleness' outa the machine if your tryn to spot it. It also makes the stick heavier when your sinkn the boot into it. Its set to 0 effect when S@L, only com'n into effect if the airflow changes. IOW, it wouldn't dampen any PIO.[ thats the pilots job].Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.birdy, here.
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Was waitn for this.Good points David, and i'm glad to see sumone noticed and is askn inteligent questions.Yes, Bone's machine did have a stab and it would be pretty powerful too given its size and placement. However, i don't know wether its set at a negative incidence or not so i couldn't tell if it did much at SL as far as PIO goes.[ i didn't fly streight long enough to feel much at all]As far as manovering goes, there was a slighjt drama. For the weight and power of the machine, the rotors were too big and slow to be able to throw it round with any real viger. It has good float and inertia[ good for mustern good cattle] but if you wanted to sink the boot into it[ needed for cheeky critters], the rotors wouldn't let you coz they couldn't keep up. Not that i woulda sunk the boot into your machine bonesy.My ferel isn't capable of anythn more than bones's, but it can pull moves at a faster rate, solong as its rotored to suit.Given the fact that it is overrotored, the HS wouldn't hinder its manoverability, coz its setup as a low AS, floaty, gentle mover.As for the wasa, yes, i did take it off, coz if your tryn to put it on a boat, it gives you more scope to compencate for wind gust changes.That stab was fitted just before i left ere, and is effective for long laps. But it dose take sum of the 'nimbleness' outa the machine if your tryn to spot it. It also makes the stick heavier when your sinkn the boot into it. Its set to 0 effect when S@L, only com'n into effect if the airflow changes. IOW, it wouldn't dampen any PIO.[ thats the pilots job].Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.birdy, here.
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Following on from Birdy re the rotors on Bones gyro. When I went from Ricks 27 ft'ers [350 revs] to Patroney 27 ft 6 in blades[ 310 revs] I noticed a big change in the speed the gyro could be pushed from a say, hard left hand turn to a hard right hand turn. The Patroneys dont like to be hurried !!I'm assuming Bones gyro has Patroney rotors as they looked white in the photo.BrianPooncarie NSW
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Following on from Birdy re the rotors on Bones gyro. When I went from Ricks 27 ft'ers [350 revs] to Patroney 27 ft 6 in blades[ 310 revs] I noticed a big change in the speed the gyro could be pushed from a say, hard left hand turn to a hard right hand turn. The Patroneys dont like to be hurried !!I'm assuming Bones gyro has Patroney rotors as they looked white in the photo.BrianPooncarie NSW
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Very interesting Birdy. I hadn't really considered that the rotors can mask the effects of the tail to that extent. For maximum responsiveness then it seems you want smaller diameter blades that will let you load them up to just within a whisker of the manufacturers max RRPM while at the other end your sphincter will tell you when you've lost too much float for comfort. Like most things I guess, a compromise. Or is the choice more complicated than that?G'day Brian, yes they are Patroneys. When you say they don't like to be hurried, isn't it really just a matter of choosing a smaller diameter or is disc inertia still a problem regardless of diameter?Regards,daj
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Very interesting Birdy. I hadn't really considered that the rotors can mask the effects of the tail to that extent. For maximum responsiveness then it seems you want smaller diameter blades that will let you load them up to just within a whisker of the manufacturers max RRPM while at the other end your sphincter will tell you when you've lost too much float for comfort. Like most things I guess, a compromise. Or is the choice more complicated than that?G'day Brian, yes they are Patroneys. When you say they don't like to be hurried, isn't it really just a matter of choosing a smaller diameter or is disc inertia still a problem regardless of diameter?Regards,daj
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Very interesting Birdy. I hadn't really considered that the rotors can mask the effects of the tail to that extent. For maximum responsiveness then it seems you want smaller diameter blades that will let you load them up to just within a whisker of the manufacturers max RRPM while at the other end your sphincter will tell you when you've lost too much float for comfort. Like most things I guess, a compromise. Or is the choice more complicated than that?G'day Brian, yes they are Patroneys. When you say they don't like to be hurried, isn't it really just a matter of choosing a smaller diameter or is disc inertia still a problem regardless of diameter?Regards,daj
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Very interesting Birdy. I hadn't really considered that the rotors can mask the effects of the tail to that extent. For maximum responsiveness then it seems you want smaller diameter blades that will let you load them up to just within a whisker of the manufacturers max RRPM while at the other end your sphincter will tell you when you've lost too much float for comfort. Like most things I guess, a compromise. Or is the choice more complicated than that?G'day Brian, yes they are Patroneys. When you say they don't like to be hurried, isn't it really just a matter of choosing a smaller diameter or is disc inertia still a problem regardless of diameter?Regards,daj
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I didn't say rotors can mask anythn. I said the machine was over rotored, big difference. If i flew it for abit S@L in lumpy air, i woulda got a feel for the stab, no dout it works just fine, but when your playn round abit, you don't notice it coz your constantly applyn rotor inputs. My point was that, because it was over rotored, the rotors responsivness was too slow to know if the stab was going to hinder the machine's manoverability.For max responcivness the rotors need to be matched to the machine's power and weight, get that right and you can run rings round a dragonfly, without stressn any component of the machine.It is a compromise. Bones's machine was very floaty and forgiving, but hard on the reins. On the other extream, a machine with less power and higher rotor loading would be much more manoverable, but much less forgiving.Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.birdy, here.
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I didn't say rotors can mask anythn. I said the machine was over rotored, big difference. If i flew it for abit S@L in lumpy air, i woulda got a feel for the stab, no dout it works just fine, but when your playn round abit, you don't notice it coz your constantly applyn rotor inputs. My point was that, because it was over rotored, the rotors responsivness was too slow to know if the stab was going to hinder the machine's manoverability.For max responcivness the rotors need to be matched to the machine's power and weight, get that right and you can run rings round a dragonfly, without stressn any component of the machine.It is a compromise. Bones's machine was very floaty and forgiving, but hard on the reins. On the other extream, a machine with less power and higher rotor loading would be much more manoverable, but much less forgiving.Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.birdy, here.
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I didn't say rotors can mask anythn. I said the machine was over rotored, big difference. If i flew it for abit S@L in lumpy air, i woulda got a feel for the stab, no dout it works just fine, but when your playn round abit, you don't notice it coz your constantly applyn rotor inputs. My point was that, because it was over rotored, the rotors responsivness was too slow to know if the stab was going to hinder the machine's manoverability.For max responcivness the rotors need to be matched to the machine's power and weight, get that right and you can run rings round a dragonfly, without stressn any component of the machine.It is a compromise. Bones's machine was very floaty and forgiving, but hard on the reins. On the other extream, a machine with less power and higher rotor loading would be much more manoverable, but much less forgiving.Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.birdy, here.
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I didn't say rotors can mask anythn. I said the machine was over rotored, big difference. If i flew it for abit S@L in lumpy air, i woulda got a feel for the stab, no dout it works just fine, but when your playn round abit, you don't notice it coz your constantly applyn rotor inputs. My point was that, because it was over rotored, the rotors responsivness was too slow to know if the stab was going to hinder the machine's manoverability.For max responcivness the rotors need to be matched to the machine's power and weight, get that right and you can run rings round a dragonfly, without stressn any component of the machine.It is a compromise. Bones's machine was very floaty and forgiving, but hard on the reins. On the other extream, a machine with less power and higher rotor loading would be much more manoverable, but much less forgiving.Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.birdy, here.
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Yeah, I got your point ok Birdy. Just a bad choice of word on my part. (English isn't my strong suit.[])For mustering then, do you prefer lighter alloy rotors for responsiveness or could you achieve much the same performance with smaller diameter f/glass rotors?daj
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Yeah, I got your point ok Birdy. Just a bad choice of word on my part. (English isn't my strong suit.[])For mustering then, do you prefer lighter alloy rotors for responsiveness or could you achieve much the same performance with smaller diameter f/glass rotors?daj
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