Bill Drewery has come and taken.....

[Brian]

Hi Tim, welcome.There are quite a few gyro pilots that have many of thousands of hours up. I have accumulated over 4,000 hours so far and some of the blokes I know have many more hours up than that. Gyros are only as dangerous as the pilot. Good training is essential.There are a few gyro makers here in Ozz that make quality gyros as well. Just my humble opinion but start off in a seconhand "basic "gyro and get some flying experience under your belt first before getting a really flash gyro. Will save you lots of headaches!Talk to as many gyro pilots as possible and be prepared for a steep learning curve.You never know how far you can go, till you get there !

[asra]

Brian said, "Gyros are only as dangerous as the pilot"Sorry Brian but that is not true. There are gyro designs that are safer than others. That is not opinion but proven fact with physics etc.Tim welcome, you have already done some homework and are heading in the right direction. Congratulations.[^]It is my hope that the next generation of gyro pilots will do their homework, as you have done, and that the fatality rate will continue to decline.Once again congratulations.As Brian said "There are a few gyro makers here in Ozz that make quality gyros as well." I personally put all of my faith in the Boys from Broken Hill, Tim and Rosco, regarding product. Their engineering and building expertise for the outback machines is second to none. From my extensive testing of gyroplane stability, in my opinion, their machine design is not the safest for beginners.Tim, if I can be of any help just holla.[]Aussie Paul. []www.firebirdgyros.com

[birdy]

"Sorry Brian but that is not true."Sorry Paul but it is true.Gyros are no different to any machine.The safest desigened machine of any kind will still kill an idiot,and you can't blame the machine,wether it's safe on not.A stable machine is easer to fly only,not safer.Ease of operation will breed complaicency,a bigger danger than instability.Yes Paul,I'll keep on you if you keep on say'n that stable machines can't kill.I know thats not wot you mean,but it's the general perception of most newbys.And it's a dangerous perseption.Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.

[asra]

Hey Birdy,you can keep on me as much as you like. I can handle it.[] I have never said and never will say that stable gyros can't kill, but a stable machine is far more forgiving of a human error that can be made witout being an "idiot". Why do you quote "idiots"[?] There are more than "idiots" and experienced gyro pilots out there in the real world Birdy. There is a wide range of people interested in gyros out there, all with different talants, expertise, and levels of knowledge. A gyro that is more forgiving is safer for a beginer.You said, "but it's the general perception of most newbys". I disagree.[V]Aussie Paul. []www.firebirdgyros.com

[Brian]

Gee Paul, you have been fairly quite of late and you did post somewhere that you didnt care how a gyro was made stable, as long as it was stable. I mistakenly took that post as a concilitory statement and that we could tone down on the more disputed issues that we discuss from time to time. We, meaning the rest of the forum that sometimes doesnt see eye to eye with you. I even posted that I'm looking to have a 2 seater built hopefully this year and that it would be CLT.I wrote "Gyro's are only as dangerous as the pilot" in a broad statement to a newby starting out. What I wrote Paul IS true. There are plenty of pilots out there who fly non CLT gyros and even learnt to fly on those gyros. There are some out there who learnt to fly gyros with no stab and some who continue to fly non stabed gyros very safely.I do concede that a stable gyro should be easier to fly than a non stable one but as Birdy says, any machine, even a CLT Tall tail can kill if its not flown correctly.Birdy using the term "idiots" wasnt the best choice of words but he most likely saw "red" like I did when I read your post having an unfair stab at me.Thank you Paul!You never know how far you can go, till you get there !

[asra]

G,day Brian, Your comment about there being gyro makers here in Oz has intrigued me, who are they? as when i search i always come up blank . Are their gyros centre line thrust as i won't go near one that isn't , any way thanks for the welcome , cheers Tim.Remember -- If you can't get it up , your not trying.

[Brian]

Hi Tim, the gyro makers I know personally of are from Broken Hill and popular to the opionion of some, they will make a gyro to YOUR specifications very happily .Their run of the line gyro they build isnt CLT but once again, they are extremely safe to learn in and fly. I like many other's have learnt in and fly their gyros with confidence, in fact the gyros out of BH have accumalated tens of thousands of hours so that when you fly, you arent being a test pilot testing many diferent components . All componets are built in house and back up service is provided so if you are interested I will pass on their details.Just a word of caution, a CLT gyro isnt a immediate passport to immortality, the training and care you take in flying will determine how safe you will fly.You never know how far you can go, till you get there !

[asra]

Brian Said, "I do concede that a stable gyro should be easier to fly than a non stable one"and "Just a word of caution, a CLT gyro isnt a immediate passport to immortality,"Absolutely Brian.[^]My comment was not an unfair stab at you, it was just stating the truth. My apologies if you were offended.Aussie Paul.[]www.firebirdgyros.com

[birdy]

Just to add to wot Brian just said bout the BH men Tim H.I just replaced the old towers on me old ferel.They were the origional 'bush in the block' type with an oil hole for periodic lubing.[very messy and the bush had worn out to an extent that I had bout 3* slop in the pitch of the blades].The head is nearly 7 years old with bout 1500 hours on it and the new 'mushroom' towers slotted streight on and fly in perfect track and tune,with no shake.That is testament to this blokes engineering skill,7 years difference and an exzact match.If I wanted anyone to build a strong ,functional,time tested machine of any kind that my life depended on,it will be Rosco.And to know he will "custom "build to your preference is even better.PS;Tim Mc.,I know Rosco's on holiday,but if you run into him somewhere,let im know that it's sweet,they fitted perfectly.[wot else.]Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.

[Brian]

Good to hear that Birdy, I recently replaced my forks with a pair that Tim made with a bearing in place of the bushes and they are smoother than the old bush type and are looking good. An oil hole ....can imagine the mess with the dust etc.I'm blessed to have Tim and Rosco so close cause I'm not a builder or techy and I can get anything from a UHF radio and helmet set up to a new gyro and anything in between.Had a shocking dust storm here yesterday, probably the worse for 6 months, cut the country up really badly.Was one of those days that the wind tore the ground up.You never know how far you can go, till you get there !

[Tim]

quote:Originally posted by birdyPS;Tim Mc.,I know Rosco's on holiday,but if you run into him somewhere,let im know that it's sweet,they fitted perfectly.[wot else.]I will not run into him Birdy but I will pass the word on when he gets backTim McClure

[Lefty]

Hi,As a newbie (to flying and gyro"s and all things aeronautical) I soak up these posts like a sponge.The to and fro regarding CLT and old school pilots and newbie students reminds me of something I do understand well. I learned to ride motorcycles as a younger bloke way before ABS (anti-lock brakes) was around.... and part of learning to ride was learning to brake to stay alive !Nowdays, go and get a bike off the showroom and it comes fitted with "grab a fistful of lever and stop safely" The thing is.... this doesn"t teach riders how to brake effectively or feel the road surface and grip changing. It just teaches them "Thats the stop in a hurry lever !"So whats safer? ...definately the bike with ABS ... But what I feel is safer than that is knowing how to brake without locking up in the first place! And so it seems with all the guys here who know what they are doing with machines with HTL. They have learned the neccessary skills to fly safely.So do I go and learn to fly a CLT machine?.....If I did I don"t guess I"d be fully prepared for flying a HTL machine because of it. BUT ...Thanks to you guys , I know there is a difference and can turn my commonsence-a-brain up to maximum should I go and fly one.(yes I know it should be up there all the time anyway but it"s a figure of exampleness)In the end for newbies It will be easier to learn to fly safely with CLT or HTL with a good stab but that won"t make us as good a pilots as the blokes who have learned to "fly (brake)to stay alive"....................................on to the next post and another dang midnight read-a-thon! ;DLefty

[aussie_paul]

Both Lefty!!!!Aussie Paul.