New Regulations Identity?

[asra]

Here's a cut & paste from page 27 of the new regulations booklet.Questions:-1. Will other pilots expect us to be calling Gyrocopter or Gyroplane?2. What does it mean by 'avoiding the flow' of FW aircraft? Do we go and hover somewhere? []Dave

[asra]

Dave,Answer 1. During my time in GA and on the odd occassion when a gyro has been fitted with radio and operating from an aerodrome the call was "GYRO" example"GYRO 1234 Downwind for runway 16 at 500 feet" or "Gyro 1234 inbound from the east for (aerodrome) maintaining 500' estimate circuit in one zero minutes"Answer 2. There are two things we can do here (1) join the circuit at 500' on normal down wind leg this gives us (gyro pilots) a 500' speeration between FW traffic in the circuit (provided FW drivers change from area QNH to the aerodrome QNH - ommitting to do this will not see a 500' variation - but their flying skills need to be questioned that is some FW pilots see 500' as close enough is good enough) (2) If permitted at the aerodrome we could fly a right hand circuit whislt FW operate on a left hand circuit. But regardless of all this once we are established on final we have right of way to all traffic (piper, cessna, 747)Not sure if this helps?CheersFrankiejAlways remember you're unique, just like everyone else

[asra]

I know I'm just a Yank, but it sounds as if your new regulations are pretty heavily based on ours. In the U.S., 'avoid the flow of FW traffic' means precisely that. In other words, if the airplanes are flying a 1 mile downwind at 1000' AGL, a gyroplane pilot might fly a 1/2 mile downwind at 500'. At another airport, the FWs might fly a left pattern at 1000' AGL and the gyroplanes a right pattern at 500'. We can use many techniques to stay out of the FW pattern, until final, of course, and give ourselves the space and time to see the traffic and fit ourselves in when it is safe. Flying a low, close pattern gives the gyro pilot plenty of opportunity to see the FW traffic and then let them know what his intentions are. This might mean doing plenty of 360s close to the runway to maintain proper spacing, or to allow an airplane pilot that you might not fully trust to go ahead. Most airplane pilots do not understand the flight charectersitics of a gyroplane. It is therefore up to us to make our needs known and to fly very defensively in crowded airspace. I've always read the instruction that I should 'avoid the flow of FW traffic' as permission to fly whatever pattern I feel is necessary to maintain safe separation. It is, of course, important not to be an asshole and to keep the airplanes informed of our intentions, if they have radios. I feel that we must have radios when flying in the pattern with airplanes.These same techniques can also work at a towered airport. It can be difficult for a controller to fit a slow gyroplane into the standard pattern, if they even know what a gyroplane is. If we let them know that we can safely make a slow, steep approach from a low pattern, or safely make an early x-wind turn after takeoff, it can help the controller to better deal with us and not feel that slow gyros necessarily increase their worload.Gyros can fit in very well with airplanes at both towered and untowered airports, but the gyro pilot MUST take positive charge of his own flying, even telling the controller what he requires, while being courteous and communicative.

[asra]

PeterNot a bad explaination for a Yank - You are right in what you are saying first rule of flying is to fly (Aviate, Navigate, Communicate) I know of pilots who have gotten themselves into some nasty positions because they were more worried about meeting the demands of the control tower rather then flying. Here is a reality check the guys in the control tower actual work for us (without pilots they would be out of a job) we give them what we require to fly safely and they in return have to provide the required safety and separation, most tend to provide tracks heights etc to suit their requirements to make life easy for themselves. The words to use are " I require due to cloud/ traffic/ terrian/ weather etc. Once in controlled airspace we should not be treated any differently to any other traffic, my experience in most cases smaller/slower aircraft would get priority to land so they are no longer the controllers responsibility. REMEMBER BE COURTEOUS AT ALL TIMES - BE AN ASSHOLE AND YOU MOST CERTAINLY WILL BE TREATED LIKE ONE (I speak from experience on this one)CheersFrankiejAlways remember you're unique, just like everyone else

[NiqueNaque]

Frank,I can be an Asshole too, thanks for your post telling me how to avoid it, most enlightening, thanks.Cheers,Nick.

[asra]

G'Day Dave.To answer your question re. (Will other pilots expect us to be calling Gyrocopter or Gyroplane?)Ref. ASRA OP's Manual, Section 4.02eg. For a gyroplane registerd as G-001, the callsign will be:"Gyroplane, zero, zero, one" I new I read it somewhere, although you are right, CASA should first make up their mind !!!!!!!!!!!!!!Regards Sam. []

[asra]

Nick,What the F&*k are you going on about? In the U.S., even in the open West where I live, gyro pilots learn how to survive in a fixed-wing world. Here, I have a PPL that gives me the same rights and responsibilities as any other private pilot. If I have to or want to, I can land at JFK or LAX or ANY airport. It is expected that I know the proper procedures, including how to cleary communicate my needs and limitations to Air Traffic Control. I think Frank's post was reasonable and recognized the neccessity for gyro pilots to be good flying Citizens. Someday soon, gyro pilots in OZ might be held to the same standards, and given the privileges, as any other PP. That is a good thing, in my opinion.

[asra]

Peter,I think Nick was having a bit of tounge and cheek with my last statement I don't think he meant anything by it. Its a little bit different in OZ we have no where near the traffic you guys have yet we are treated as outcasts (this includes private pilots - over the years I have seen more and more restrictions placed on us pilots) it shouldn't matter what we fly we are all trained Pilots some day I guess we will be recognised and given privileges but for now I'm happy just to enjoy the freedom of flyingCheersFrankiejAlways remember you're unique, just like everyone else

[asra]

Nick,If I missed your joke, I apologize.

[NiqueNaque]

Frank: Thank you,Peter: No problem, I'll have to adjust my sense of humour as it seems to converge onto sarcasm which is the worst form of wit, for future reference you might notice it is usually self effacing... ie, I'll call myself an asshole before I call someone else the same.But seriously, the important point that both Peter and Frank make is that the tower jockeys are our servants, they are not in the air risking life and limb so it is important to know that you can tell them what you need to get down safely, they may have to be reminded that they are in a nice safe seat on terra firma, if you have to tell them they are putting you at risk in requesting something of you then tell them it is outside your flight envelope. Because you're flying a gyro they most likely won't know even what it looks like... or how it flies, they may merely regard you as another fixed wing aircraft and have the same expectations, you should expect this.Hope this helps.Cheers,Nick.

[asra]

Nick and Frank,I don't know what the regs are down-under, but here the Pilot in Command is both permitted and obligated to deviate from ATC instructions if, in his/her opinion, it is necessary for safety. When flying under Visual Flight Rules (VFR), the Pilot is always responsible for maintaining separation even if he is under ATC instruction. It is always acceptable to reply 'Unable' when given an instruction by ATC that the Pilot feels is dangerous or inappropriate for his/her aircraft, ability or weather conditions. I have not flown a whole lot in controlled airspace. When I have, I have found the controllers to be very professional and flexible when handling me, but I have had to request changed clearances in the interest of comfort and safety. For example, when instructed to overfly the airport at mid-field and 2,000' which would put use up with much faster FW traffic, my instructor immediately requested to transit the airspace at 1500' (500' AGL). Which was granted and much safer. I was ready to comply with the first clearance. Lesson learned.There are a few gyros in Phoenix based at controlled airports, and I know that the pilots have taken the time to go to the tower or the airposrt manager to explain the flight characterstics and requirments of the gyro and to discuss, ahead of time, the best way to handle the gyro in the pattern. I know one pilot even got permission to use a taxiway for takeoff and landing when conditions allowed and traffic was heavy.I nkow that most of you will never to fly in these conditions, but if gyros are brought into the mainstream there, as they should be, in my opinion, you will more and more often.

[asra]

PeterYou are right although controllers are professionals and approachable most have no flight experience at all and therefore have limited knowledge of aircraft characterstics about 15 years ago I was being given a tour of the Townsville Control tower at the same time NASA had a U2 (an outdated spy (sorry observation) plane conducting research on the ocean temperatures anyway as I sat there listening the U2 pilot contacted Townsville tower requesting a flight level of 50,000' there was a roar of laughter amongst the controllers - and was given the reply - cleared for flight level five zero if you can make it - their laughter nearly turn to tears when the U2 pilot replied (with a yankie cheese grin tone) "NASA U2 desending flight level six zero for five zero - I think I can, I think I can". The ponit is controllers have a good understanding of the the aircraft types that frequent the aerodrome but when a U2, gyro or other unusal aircraft comes into their airspace we tend to get the royal run around while they determine what to do with us. I would suggest that it would be a good idea when we get the privileges to fly in controlled airspace someone from ASRA would educate controllers on the gyro characteristics. What peeves me even more are so called pilot mates of mine who have labled me a cowboy because I want to fly a gyro which they see as death traps, there appears to be no understanding of the gyro by the aviation community until we can rectify this we will remain where we are - COWBOYS IN DEATH TRAPS and that pi$$es me right offCheersFrankiejAlways remember you're unique, just like everyone else

[asra]

Probably the best way to educate the masses is to be out and aboutsetting a good example !I wish I could, I hope I can.Robert DunnMackay. Qld.Growing old is good while it lasts.

[asra]

PS:An take lotsa photas.Thanks Mitch.Robert DunnMackay. Qld.Growing old is good while it lasts.