Gyro Accident Tasmania

[asra]

At the moment, other than control failure it appears the cause is unknown but I would like to put up something here as food for thought. I have often practiced flying on rudder and throttle alone, letting the stick go where it will for the specific purpose of being able to control the aircraft in the event of a control failure. In gusty conditions it is difficult but doable and the aircraft can be flown back to the strip although with no controls there may be a rollover on the ground. If the failure occurs in a high G manoeuvre it may be impossible to recover. Also if something jams it may be impossible to maintain level flight.Peter.

[Brian]

At the moment, other than control failure it appears the cause is unknown but I would like to put up something here as food for thought. I have often practiced flying on rudder and throttle alone, letting the stick go where it will for the specific purpose of being able to control the aircraft in the event of a control failure. In gusty conditions it is difficult but doable and the aircraft can be flown back to the strip although with no controls there may be a rollover on the ground. If the failure occurs in a high G manoeuvre it may be impossible to recover. Also if something jams it may be impossible to maintain level flight.Peter.In Allan"s case, he was straight and level when he first noticed he had a problem [approximately 1000 ft ] he tried throttle and rudder I believe which proved to be of little help and of course the stick which probably is not the same shape it was. From witness"s accounts, the gyro entered the water approximately 50* nose down and possibly turning to the right. I hope I got that correct. I agree Peter that everything possible should be done to try and salvage the situation however, all gyros have quirks of their own which can make control very dificult.What I cant imagine is how I would feel being in Allan"s boots, most situations can be retrieved or got out of but when the stick refuses to do anything, that"s just plain scary.

[Russell]

I"ve lost count how many gyros i"ve had be bum in over the yrs...........almost every single one if you let the stick go............peels away left / rightpeels away left / right, and either looses or gains heightnoses down fairly quicklynoses upand on the very rare occassions...........continues straight and level.do yourselves a favour..........let your own stick go...( really let it go, and not for a brief moment either ) next time you is flying, might just surprise you how quick you get into the poo, then try to sort it.........WITHOUT touching the stick.

[asra]

What I am thinking is to sort out those quirks so that all else being favorable the machine can be flown with no controls attached to the rotor. Although what what I have said may apply to neither incedent, there have been two control failures in a few months. I thought I would mention it here as this is what I use as a last line of redundancy in the event of a rotor control failure. I do it quite often Russel, but I only fly my own machine.

[Ken Watson]

I have 3 springs attached to my control bar. One in the centre for trim adjustment, and 2 at angle to control side movement and to add to trim that are ground adjustable. I have adjusted mine to fly straight and level, but still scary knowing you dont have full control. This is all well and fine, but have we complicated things too much,.. Benson had an overhead stick in one of his pictures which required the same control inputs as a Trike. I think Rob P. Is the same. Wouldn"t this be better and less complicated. It meets the KISS principle. Some will say it is not the same as a plane . Who cares, neither is a trike. Has anyone flown with this style of control, and if so tell us your opinion? I think we are getting caught up with trying to make our machines too complicated. If you want to go faster: buy a plane. If you want to go vertical: buy a chopper. If you want to go simple and uncomplicated: go gyro.The best machine to me is still the small light basic single seat. The one that looks like a kitchen chair stuck to a broomstick with a mower strapped on the back. Ken

[Tsemler]

Hi all,Here i am scratchin my head and cogs grinding, (and only being a young gun and not really knowing alot)If say a push rod had broke on one side, Wouldnt you still at least have roll control from the other push rod or would that just flex or what???????Also looking at some pictures of the butterfly range i see that the control stick pivots on a single bolt from a plate on the frame could this be a fatigue point??? Which brings me to my next thought.Since Alan travelled from QLD down to TAS im guessing it was trailered, what effect could this have on our Rod Ends? (especially with all that stuff up there on the rotor head MLS) which then leads to another thought that Alan will have to answer when he"s back on board, was the stick lock in a netural postion when traileredTrent Oh also was this on the first flight since arriving in TAS?

[asra]

I dont think trailering would affect rod ends much. Over the years mustering gyros would have covered a lot of rough miles on utes, trailers and trucks and rod ends havent been an issue.

[eigyro]

Trent,
..........

[asra]

I like the three pushrod setup. A bit complicated to ad to an existing setup where the controls split and a rod runs up either side of the mast, but very simple to incorperate into a new airframe. I would guess that the initial reaction to one pushrod failing under load would be the opposite to what is required. If it failed when the aircraft is trimmed in level flight I think it would be possible to get the aircraft back on the ground. In saying that I think Fergus"s suggestions for lines of redundancy are a far better option.

[asra]

Whilst I agree that the best idea is to wait and see, the common theory is that a pushrod has let go on the top left. The noise that Allan heard and the fact that the left pushrod,when detached at the top,can pivot nicely back into the prop supports this. We tested this on Mitch"s gyro which is identical in this area. I hope I"m wrong.

[asra]

Hello Murray,Whatever the final outcome of this incident I think these sugestions from Fergus need a good look at.The setup with one rod controlling for-aft movement the other controlling roll would mean that if a control rod failed under load, the rotor would settle back to its trim position rather than the remaining rod pulling or pushing the rotor out of kilter as would happen with the setup we have now. The three rod setup would provide full control in the event of a control rod failure.In looking at this I think the current, setup although its been in use a long time is an engineering weakness as Fergus said and that perhaps this other two rod system should be made a minimum requirement on new machines.Peter.

[elwynne]

Any closer in finding the gyro?

[birdy]

Rod failuers?????Everythyn be"n equal, a control rod ona gyro WILL NOT fail, ........ solong as its fitted correctly, never is used after any rotor or bird strike or anythn that stresses it in any way other than the way its desigened to opperate.The things are way over engineered for the aplication.Addn redundantsys will not prevent the age old faut of "human error".Coz human error can also inflict the redundant part too.All that be"n said, i have stainless cable loops connecting my rods to the ball ends to give me a second link, just in case a f%$%n wedgy takes out me rods.And not putn sh!t on ol mate Allan, but im glad it was him. And im glad he was over soft water.

[Des Garvin]

Aye Birdy, Hows that banana bender behaving out there with ya, or has he had enough and headed back to his Boss again. ;D Hope ya enjoying ya self out there with Davo Bonesy. How about a brief run on ya trip as we all find ya writting interestin. Trust the weather is being kind to ya mates.Cheers, Des Garvin.

[Disco]

All that be"n said, i have stainless cable loops connecting my rods to the ball ends to give me a second link, just in case a f%$%n wedgy takes out me rods.Couldn"t post a picture could ya??Dean