I scratched "Persistence"

[asra]

Ack ! seriously ! if the Adim feels that something must be done then Kick me ! if any of the others get kicked off this thing then they can't fly and I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.... its a sad state of afairs when a few posts can remove your flying ! but that is what you have ... I hope you guys get togather and change that ... its just not right ! I'll shuddup now !Bob....." Momm'a alwayse told me , Son the impossable is only a little bit Harder... and ya know I do believe She was RIGHT ! "

[asra]

Nick,poet your not ....Bob,the last thing i'd like to see is you getting thrown off for voicing your mind and asking advice ... at least while your posting here your getting a bit of advice, and we all seem to be learning something ... [8D]Oh, just for the record ... my instructor spent approx three weeks away from home roughing it in a tent for a pittance - wouldn't have been anything near to wages ... there's some great blokes out here in Aus trying to pass on their knowledge and make flying safer for all ..oh yeah, I bit the dust on my first day after going solo .... under powered (VW) and underskilled ... I know how you feel, and I 'm sorry to hear that you've trashed yours.Just for my info Bob, I know you've had no instruction but I don't remember seeing anywhere whether you have flown passenger in a gyro or not or have any other flying experience in fixed wing? Noticing that your machine is pio'ing may not be easily recognised the first time it happens. Also, if you have not had anyone with experience test your machine you won't be prepared for any little nasties it may throw at you? Ok, I'm of my box ... some one elses turn []Safe Flying ... ding Good judgment comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgment

[NiqueNaque]

Greg,You seem a little excited... and I was pointing to your points of excellence, nasty return volley.There was nothing political in my post, so it isn't a polly waffle. Just as I've said before, I'm not a politician, yet.We all get to be a ****** sooner or later, tell me that you've never been one and I'll believe you.I don't own a horse, I don't need a lawyer to win an argument, of late they've been calling on me for help in winning theirs.Like you, I'm trying to provide some help / hints, if it extends to asking for Bob to be barred, so be it. Just as I asked for your butterfly to be modified at the mast / engine mount connection - did you survive your incident intact? Could that be down to me, did I save you from serious injury by being a pri*k to you? Tell me the connection wasn't modified because I pointed out some misgivings about the design, was it put there after I said something or not?Did your trailer survive its trip to the nationals? It didn't break off after you triangulated the corners after my hinting at it being a potential problem?Did I try to help you Greg? If I did you have a strange way of showing your appreciation.Nick.

[Brian]

Bob,we arent trying to belittle you,not at all!! We are concerned about your well being and health and would love to see you as a aviator flying around in your gyro enjoying yourself like we all do.The thing is that a lot of us iether know of or have heard true stories of whats happened to some of those who taught themselves to fly and unfortunately, there are some who were killed in their gyros and many more who stopped flying as they got "a scare" that cost them their nerve . The amount of fatalaties nowdays since dual training has dropped dramatically despite many more hours being flown.This amongst other things has done a lot to raise the profile of gyro flying in a favourable light.The gyro fraternity had a bad name for themselves and the gyro got branded as a "death" machine. I know that when I started to learn to fly a gyro, I was told by some people that I was "a temory Australian" and it would only be a matter of time before I would be killed in a gyro. I now am heading for 4,000 hours of gyro flying. I KNOW that having dual instruction and good instruction is the reason I am here today !! I learnt skill and "feel' from my instructor, not from a manual on how to fly!!! Knowing what I know now, I would NOT attempt to fly a gyro WITHOUT dual instruction !!! All the gyro pilots I know, would not have attempted to teach themselves how to fly !! The very last thing we want to hear Bob is that you lost your life trying to do something stupid that was totally avoidable.You know Bob, I thought when I first read your posts, that you were someone pulling our leg and I thought it was a great joke and very funny but I have realized that you are serious and that scares me.My wife and I will pray for you Bob.Good luck and God bless !Brian

[telf]

Bob,I'm no hero and I'm not rich either but when I wanted to learn to fly I had to travel literally half way across Australia to get training.Look at where Alice Springs is on the map of Oz then pick any point on the coast. Thats where the instructors were living so what I did was take a week's holiday and got my rating by a good instructor.I don't think there are any other valid options.It will be a cheaper and safer in the long run.telfFlying - The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. (Douglas Adams-The Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy)

[asra]

Good points ALL . And to be totally Honnest I Want to take instructions in the worst way , especially after this last crash.... I'm realy getting tired of repairing my gyro ! I'ed rather be flying it.... Unfortionately I cannot afford to travle 600+ miles spend a week and get to the solo point. if i'm lucky... its simply impossable at this point in time. Thank you all for your concern I'll see if i can get off the mountian here and find some gyros down in the valley, there's gott'a be some sommewhere.... but to be honnest I have never seen one other than my own in real life. Perhaps I can find someone in the PRA that has a 2 placer and go pay for a ride.... and drain his brain for a few hours ... anything is better than nothing ! Thanks for the help !Bob......" Momm'a alwayse told me , Son the impossable is only a little bit Harder... and ya know I do believe She was RIGHT ! "

[Greg Mitchell]

Thats it Bob, go find a two place machine and go for a ride. That's the first step. What you choose to do from there will at least be based on the experience of having been up in a gyro and a basic intro to the primary flight controls. Take this next step. Good Man.Nick, for the last time, you idiot!!!!"Just as I asked for your butterfly to be modified at the mast / engine mount connection - did you survive your incident intact?" YES I SURVIVED INTACT.THE MAST SURVIVED INTACT. Could that be down to me, NO FU#KING WAY JOSE, YOU IDIOT did I save you from serious injury by being a pri*k to you? NO, YOU DID NOT, YOU WERE JUST A PRI*K, FULL STOP. Tell me the connection wasn't modified because I pointed out some misgivings about the design, THE SO CALLED CONNECTION WAS NOT MODIFIED BECAUSE OF YOUR NIT PICKING AND THREATS OF LAW SUITS, IT WAS INSTALLED LONG BEFORE YOU POKED YOUR HEAD UP AND HAD MORE TO DO WITH SEAT CROSSOVER TUBE DISTORTION, THAN THE MAST SUPPORT STIFFENER TUBE NAME WHICH WE GAVE IT TO PLACATE IDIOTS LIKE YOU. was it put there after I said something or not? FOR THE LAST TIME...ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!Did your trailer survive its trip to the nationals? NO. It didn't break off after you triangulated the corners after my hinting at it being a potential problem? THE MODIFICATION YOU SPEAK OF WAS NOT REQUIRED. I DID INSTALL TWO BRACES JUST FOR MY OWN PEACE OF MIND. OH BUT THANKS AGAIN NICK FOR SAVING MY LIFE....YOU IDIOT. Did I try to help you Greg? NO, NOT ONCE IN MY OPINION HAVE YOU TRIED TO HELP, ITS ALL BEEN SELF SERVING SH*T, AGAIN JUST MY OPINION. If I did you have a strange way of showing your appreciation. I DONT APPRECIATE YOU AT ALL. ALL YOUR POSTS ARE ABOUT ....YOU...AND HOW YOU COME OFF AFTERWARDS. I'M DONE WITH YOU NICK ONCE AND FOR ALL. YOU IDIOT. www.thebutterflyllc.com

[asra]

OK BobWould you consider finding a more suitable grass trainig strip, that has fewer issues with wind? RossB

[NiqueNaque]

Greg,Were your posts self serving as well? I'm not posting here for a financial gain as you are.I know I tried to help, it is of no benefit to me to be abused this way. Your problem and loss.Good luck,Nick.

[asra]

BobI have followed this forum and have taken some interest in your eagerness to fly and the passion that other memebers have for your health and wellbeing, because thats what it comes down too Bob who gives a rats about a banged up gyro (they can be fixed or replaced) I/we are concerned about Bob (you can not be replaced). Bob there is alot more to flying then getting the damn thing off the ground (believe or not thats the easy part - which I see you have yet to master) the other factors such as climbing, desending steep turns and what to do in the event of an engine failure ( which can occur during the take off roll, below 50' and during cruise - all of these require different automatic reactions to survive) granted just because you have been instructed on these won't make you a master however once you have been shown and these skills demonstarted to you it allows you to practice them to refine your emergency & flying skills and being at the elevation of 4500' you have no room for error. Yeap money is a concern for all of us I too have to travel 6 hours just for the previledge of paying an instructor $$$$ but Bob remember what you are paying for - flying knowledge, flying skills, survival skills and the do's and don'ts (how much can we put on a life) I'm funding my training by selling off unwant crap that's been cumulating in my shed over the years, its amazing what people will buy (Ebay has helped also) Bob you are stubbin Thick skinned and one determined SOB(most people would have dived for cover- with some of the feedback you were getting - but its all because we don't want to see you get hurt) Bob I have been flying FW since '85 and I wouldn't dream of flying a gyro without training with an instructor so please do me a favor contact an instructor and at least talk to him maybe an arrangement can be made to suit you both. BUT DON'T CONTINUE ON YOUR OWN JUST TO PROVE TO EVERYONE YOU CAN DO IT ON YOUR OWN. CheersFrankiejAlways remember you're unique, just like everyone else

[Greg Mitchell]

FINANCIAL GAIN????....What planet are you from????? Barry do me a favour and ban me lest I tear this IDIOT a new arsehole. No Loss/No favours.Adios.Mitchwww.thebutterflyllc.com

[asra]

A grass feild ? you betcha ! I wish I knew where one was I could use.... I been to 3 or 4 ranches and not one even considered letting us use their feild for ultralights ...too many people have been sewed here because the nice guy let them use the feild and got sewed because of it.... its a crying shame ... theirs great medows all over up here, hte landscape is dotted with them ... there was one down at the 2000ft marker or less that we tried before going to the airport , however last I saw the gate was locked and a realestate sign was on it ... if it sold the new owners would probly let us use it ... but not the realestate folk. I'll check on it in a few days .... that is the first time i got a hop out of the gyro was down there , dirt feild about 3000ft cleared strip about 500ft wide its the biggest thing within 100 miles ! heheheheh it was a great feeling ... even though I know now I should never have done what i did ! You guys have convinced me caution is warented ... ( as if I didn't already know that ! heheheheh! ) I'll take it slow and easy and see if I can get a ride somewhere , surely there has to be someone with a duel gyro in the north state ! .... Yes I'm bound and determended to fly... one way or another I will I asure ya ! I am courious though , a few of you have mentioned get the gyro flowned by someone else who knows gyros, have it checked out etc,etc. Maybe I have missed something along the line somewhere but why would you think my gyro un-fit for flying ? ... because I'm such a dummie I get it , I'm slow some times but I do eventually get it ! I know I come accross like a Retard guys but I do know the machine is in better shape than I am ! the rotor moves the right amount the engine is at the right placement the controls work flawlessly the haing test is correct the thrustline offset is between 6' and 7" ( which is down from 14" ) the gyro is built like a brick ****house to be blunt .... if anything its over weight by about 30 lbs ( guessing here) so I took off all the little extras I made for it , like the trim spring adjuster and a starter rope extension , etc,etc. no doubt its still heavy .... but I know it'll fly ... it did the other day but not the way I expected it to ..... Please understand for 3 years I have been taxieing and learning this gyro inside and out, I have progressed from barely being able to keep it on the runwayto stright as an arrow , from creeping along to what I thought was fast at 20mph... I have progressed slowly and steadilly up to the point where I am at now which is small hops .....that inclused ballanceing on the mains for a terrably LONG time ... I have done many small hops in the thing with no problem strangely enough however I found that on a totally calm day I couldn't get the thing to hop at all.... all the other times were with gusts or steady -ish light winds.... it never stops blowing up here on the mountian ... maybe 3 days a year it will be still if your lucky.... I guage it by how strong the wind is not the lack there of ! ... because there is alwayse some wind.anyway, I added a 4 foot hub bar to see if it would help the thing get off the ground , did a few other minor things to help it get off the ground as well, (prop pitch , HS angle) ... and luck would have it the next good day there was NO wind at all ! so We grabbed the gyro and went out .... thats when I flopped it over taxieing at 20 mph was hard at first , taxieing at 35 to40 ballanceing on the mains is not near as easy as that ! as I said , I had no truble with the other hops , when i was ballanceing on the mains,,,, going Into the wind it would float up gently as I reduced the throttle and settle back down.... I admit I didn't alwayse keep it on the runway , but thats what wide aireas are for ... hehehe anyway I thought with the added rotor diam I would probly have to go faster to overcome the added drag , which may or may not be true , but i suspected something would change.... earlier befor the flop over the gyro seamed he O'l self ... stuck tightly to the ground as usual untill a gust of wind... so I realy didn't expect any diferent reactions except her not wanting to get air bornwhich was the case so far that day... so Seeing I needed more speed or I wouldn't get into the air I dropped the nose to the ground and more or less flattened out the rotor.... That my friends is where i went wrong ! Not trying to teach myself to fly but the mistake of dropping the wheel and lowering the rotor, at least that is how I see it ... so now you have my lifes story on the gyro ! .... you can see its not a passing fancy, if it winds up killing me so be it , but I ain't givin' up ! when I get her back togather again I will continue the hops till I have the controls down pat before i take her aloft... I will work small hops into bigger hops feeling her out as I go .... If i flop her over again .... I will be pissed and angry at myself but I'll rebuild it again till i finally get to fly the thing .so fear not , I am being as carefull as I can be , some times tediously so ... but as you guys so pointidly pointed out ITs life or death .... I gott'a be carefull ! Haing in there Bob......." Momm'a alwayse told me , Son the impossable is only a little bit Harder... and ya know I do believe She was RIGHT ! "

[NiqueNaque]

Greg,You can always ignore my posts. Banning yourself from the forum will only mean other people will miss out on some sage advice you might render that some of us can't give. Your response to Kirby was of great utility, even to me, if you were banned would he have got that help? No need to leave just because you don't agree with what I say.You put the question as to 'financial gain' - so here is the responseoes this appear at the bottom of every one of your posts?"www.thebutterflyllc.com"Are you promoting your business by doing this?Is your business for financial gain?If you sold one butterfly gyro due to the awareness generated by this forum then wouldn't this be self serving?Did you sell a gyro to Allan Wardill?Did he learn of it from this site?If you want to accuse me of being self serving that is fine, I will agree that I am self serving and point out that it is equally so for you, we all are, so what. If that self servedness serves to promote the knowledge of others, even if they don't want it, great, that is what the forum is for! To expand our joint knowledge, not so that certain people can hear what they want to hear.Your insults won't stop me from posting, so you may as well cease making it unpleasant for anyone else reading this thread, unless they are here for their amusement in the latest 'Greg Mitchell & Niquenaque Show' installment.Oh, and coincidentally ( I'd just thought of this.. yes, I know I'm slow too), on the lighter side, if you think I'm a total arsehole, where would you fit another one???Bob.K,I apologise for the hijack, but when attacked I will defend myself.Please get dual instruction, have you ever listened to self taught musician in comparison with one schooled by a good tutor? You'll find schooled musicians learn a lot quicker and very much better, usually they know more about the subject matter and can think of the responses to situations better. This is because they are being gifted with the most important thing ever - 'the experience of others'.You raised some children? How close did you keep them until you knew they were right to go it alone? Did they benefit from your experience? Please benefit from ours...Cheers,Nick.

[asra]

Thanks Nique naque Now at that note I think it a good time to drop it and let this thred die a well deserved deathtoo much hate and discontent has rizen up from a inocent posting lets let it die and go on to something more constructive thank you all for your Concern Forgive me if I rubbed some of ya' the wrong way try not to take it personally thanks again !C ya !Bob......." Momm'a alwayse told me , Son the impossable is only a little bit Harder... and ya know I do believe She was RIGHT ! "

[birdy]

Hmmmm.........funny, I had a feel'n that a thread along these lines would appere.Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.You can always get the answer you want, if you ask enough experts.