Wow!!!!! All gone quiet......

[aussie_paul]

..... and hopefully thinking about the ASRA predicament.IMHO now that commercial gyroplanes are developing and increasing in numbers we will see a major increase in gyroplanes in general. This will be in the form or the the build it yourself right through to the commercial machines.I believe a volunteer system will not be able to handle the work load successfully any longer.My suggestion would be to convince the CASA to allow us to join the RAA. Then all the administration could be conducted by the already successful RAA system, and we the gyro people, would only have to oversee the airworthiness, training, and accident investigation side of gyroplanes.The future recreation flying segment of aviation will need to be run as a more business orientated regime, as the RAA have already found out.It makes sense to me BUT I am only throwing out food for thought and discussion.I am still very passionate about gyroplanes and want the gyroplane future to be rosy, not because I make and sell them, BUT because I love gyroplanes and want the gyroplane image to be lifted higher and higher. Aussie Paul.

[Brian]

"Wow, all gone quiet", ...Amen!A new day, a new era, a new board. Time now for ideas such as the above to be thrown up from the members who are ASRA. I think you are correct PB when you say that a volunteer system will not be able to keep up. We all know the huge amount of work Llewella has been doing for some time, fortunately, she had the time to do that work but as she herself said, "she could choose to have a life". I personally think that today, its not on to have anyone working to that extent on a voluntary basis, of course, to employ staff would mean increase costs to members that would be difficult to sell to the average member, so if, RAA could pick up some of the adminisration for us while ASRA still keeps its identity, that could well be a solution !! The new board has big challenges but I believe they will rise to these challenges more than capably.

[asra]

I believe the buzz-word for today is "outsourcing". I have no doubt that our previous board/s have investigated the prospect of outsourcing some of the more time consuming and onerous tasks that are required to run our organization. Some-one (Tim/Llewella) if they have a mind to, can tell us what that all means in the way of costs. Paul"s idea has merit, but only if we can"t make our own show work. A dedicated rotorcaft entity would (should) always work in the interests of rotorcraft. However, economies of scale may dictate that it is worth trading off some autonomy in the interests of cost savings. Paul, I don"t think we need to "convince" CASA to let us join the RAA. I think they would welcome it with open arms. If we decided to go that way (and I"m not saying we should), we could expect concessions from CASA/RAA as a sweetener. IF we were to go that way, it would be the time to drive a deal. If we go "cap in hand", we will get what we are given.As Nick has said in another thread - "It is time to move on". But we need to move on with the benefit of hindsight. We need to take lessons from the past to build a better future. The Regan Letter should have settled the matter of past events. Let"s see what the short term brings.Cheers

[aussie_paul]

I believe the buzz-word for today is "outsourcing". I have no doubt that our previous board/s have investigated the prospect of outsourcing some of the more time consuming and onerous tasks that are required to run our organization. Some-one (Tim/Llewella) if they have a mind to, can tell us what that all means in the way of costs. Paul"s idea has merit, but only if we can"t make our own show work. A dedicated rotorcaft entity would (should) always work in the interests of rotorcraft. However, economies of scale may dictate that it is worth trading off some autonomy in the interests of cost savings. Paul, I don"t think we need to "convince" CASA to let us join the RAA. I think they would welcome it with open arms. If we decided to go that way (and I"m not saying we should), we could expect concessions from CASA/RAA as a sweetener. IF we were to go that way, it would be the time to drive a deal. If we go "cap in hand", we will get what we are given.As Nick has said in another thread - "It is time to move on". But we need to move on with the benefit of hindsight. We need to take lessons from the past to build a better future. The Regan Letter should have settled the matter of past events. Let"s see what the short term brings.CheersFred, yes the Board has looked at outsourcing and it appeared too expensive. The CASA rules at the current time seem to prohibit the amalgamation. Paul Middleton tried very hard to bring us on board with them several years ago before the CASA rules changed, BUT we did not accept!!! I consider that decision as one of the few bad Board decisions, BUT that is only my view.I would love to see all recreational aviation under one umbrella with the admin conducted by the "organisation" and the particular needs of the various recreational flying disciplines looked after by thier own.One slight negative with a system like the above is that smaller organisation would lose some autonomy and egos would get trodden on. Unfortunately egos do play a part in these types of organisations, I am sure we all are aware of that.Aussie Paul.

[Disco]

I reckon the registra would be a huge part of what lewella is doing.

[wflaks]

PaulLet us look at the membership from 80"s 90"s to the present day, membership numbers are about the same. We have done the work in the past, why joint the RAA when we can still do the work or are the members getting lazy? The board has created lot of unnecesary work for themselfs, spred the work load the way it was 5yrs ago.Walter

[aussie_paul]

PaulLet us look at the membership from 80"s 90"s to the present day, membership numbers are about the same. We have done the work in the past, why joint the RAA when we can still do the work or are the members getting lazy? The board has created lot of unnecesary work for themselfs, spred the work load the way it was 5yrs ago.WalterI disagree Wal. The govt/CASA had loaded more work and increased responsibilities on the recreational flying bodies. The membership may not have increased much BUT the workload has. Also, as we enter the gyro boom times it will only get worse.It could be a case of amalgamate or get left behind. Strength in numbers.Aussie Paul.

[asra]

Yeah! I agree Paul. Those that are invilved in "volunteer" organisations know that the workload required to stay afloat has quadrupled in the last 5 years. And that is just to keep your head above water.Cheers

[birdy]

Please excuse my ignorance, but wots the RAA??

[aussie_paul]

Please excuse my ignorance, but wots the RAA??The new name on the AUF Birdy. Recreational Aviation of Australia I think it is. They wanted to get rid of the death trap "ultralight" tag.The same as we need to get rid of "gyrocopter" and stick to gyroplane as in the CAOs.Aussie Paul.

[Brian]

PaulLet us look at the membership from 80"s 90"s to the present day, membership numbers are about the same. We have done the work in the past, why joint the RAA when we can still do the work or are the members getting lazy? The board has created lot of unnecesary work for themselfs, spred the work load the way it was 5yrs ago.WalterLots more paperwork nowadays Fred, I know here on the farm that the amount of paperwork here is silly for the size of the operation.Plus, there are unfortunately more inquests etc happening as well.Of course, if we get plenty of good volunteers, and I think we will, then there is a good chance we will be ale to handle the workload.I reckon this new board will be a bit different to what you have seen in the last 5 years or so!!!!!

[Tim]

If an online database could be created with creditcard payments etc,

[asra]

Please excuse my ignorance, but wots the RAA??The new name on the AUF Birdy. Recreational Aviation of Australia I think it is. They wanted to get rid of the death trap "ultralight" tag.The same as we need to get rid of "gyrocopter" and stick to gyroplane as in the CAOs.Aussie Paul. Me don"t know too much Paul, and it"s not really relevant to the discussion, but as I understand it "Gyrocopter" was a trade name used by the Benson organisation..they are all gyroplanes of course.

[aussie_paul]

Me don"t know too much Paul, and it"s not really relevant to the discussion, but as I understand it "Gyrocopter" was a trade name used by the Benson organisation..they are all gyroplanes of course.

[Ken Watson]

I agree with PB. I like the idea of hiding out in the RAA. Then they can all be grouped with us in the dangerous side of flying. Possble strength in numbers and having others defend and fight for us would be good. Not to mention we would get a rep on the RAA too.. Then if someone has a problem. they will also be fighting a larger group (THE RAA)> It sounds real important too.. Ken