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  • #16
    G"day Paul, Have re-read your original post (and the replies of others), and a couple of questions come to mind. The first question is why are you making this suggestion? The obvious answer is "because the ASRA board has imploded/exploded or some other sort of "ploded". Whatever it is, it apparently no longer fuctions. After a while I got to pondering why this would be so (the board ceasing to function, that is). There are two reasons that I can think of.[*]The first one is that some-one spilled beer on some-one elses boot in the pub (or walked dogs poop on their carpet) or some other thing so that there has been a personality conflict. I doubt that 8 or 9 people that have the outward appearance of being very intelligent (and that have a couple of centuries of aviation experience between them) would allow a simple personality thing to bring down the board or the association.[*][/list][*]That brings me to the second reason (in my mind) why the board is now in tatters. That is, that there are deep and philosphical differences between a couple of factions within the board. That is, there are possibly 2 groups within the board that want to take the gyro movement in different directions. Personalities may have been a catalyst for the resulting destruction of the board, but there must have been an underlying difference in ideals in the first instance.[*][/list]



    And if we add the Bruty/RAA suggestion, it is a possible 3 directions that we (the members) must contemplate.I think most members of the gyro movement are a little bit like the proverbial "mayor of Hiroshima" at present (What the F#$@k was that????). But now it is gradually dawning on us that something big has happened, but we"re not quite sure what it all means.That brings me back to the point of the post. You have put forward a suggestion for the members to consider. That is, we join forces with RAA (AUF) for our future flying. That is a fine suggestion, but at present (in my mind, anyway) it is a little bit like a crayfish. All shell, and not much guts. To properly consider such a suggestion, we need to consider exactly what that will mean to people like myself who are current members of ASRA. Some of the questions in my mind are things such as:- Cost (not a big deal if its a small difference, but if its $2K p.a. instead of $200, then it might be)- Will there be a "sunset" on our present quals/conditions, or do we have to upgrade?- Do we all have to have a 4 stroke Rotax and drink chardonnay?- etc, etc, etc (You get the drift)Perhaps you might do a little research and report back here on what it means to me (and presumably there are others interested in at least considering the idea) if we decided to join RAA. Undoubtedly, you will have contacts within CASA and RAA that can give you some idea of the implications/benefits/changes of such a move.While we are at it, I doubt that all of the previous board members (and those that are considering standing for election this time) have been sitting on their hands. Perhaps some of them might put a few words together to tell us where they see ASRA going into the future (provided they see themselves as part of ASRA"s future, of course). I really do belief that it is time for candidates to declare "party lines", rather than us electing a heap of individuals with differing agendas, and expecting it to work. It is time that candidates agreed on policy and run on a "ticket". It"s how every civilized country in the world elects their government. We need to be able to gauge the different options before we can decide which way to go. So, can some-one oblige?I never jumped out of a leaking boat unless the water was coming in faster than I could bail it out. Therefore Paul, I need to be convinced to jump. I look forward to the findings of your research on this matter. Don"t go overboard. Just "in principle" stuff (in the first instance). If we like the scene that you paint (and the new ASRA scene is not stacking up), then we may ask for a bit more detail.Cheers

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    • #17
      Ok, something else to ponder for all members now, now that the dust has settled after the bar room brawl......The "Evans" resigned, yes, but are they are still standing for the next upcoming elections. That"s right folks, were their nominations
      If you aim for nothing, you'll hit it every time

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      • #18
        Russ,We need to work out what the constitution says about such matters. Also, we need to consider what the new board stands for. It"s time to stop thinking of throwing 7 or 8 people together without any consideration for the damage we could do to their mental health. We saw what happened this last year. Are the three remaining members on the same wavelength as the "noobies"? And if they are, are they heading ASRA in a direction most of us want to go? There"s plenty to consider. 20 yrs ago, you only had to consider if you wanted a VW, a EA81, or a new fangled Rotax. They all did the same thing, except the noise was different. Now we"ve got Rolls Royces (like you"re having built/FB/H-S/Bones/Newo), Bob sleds, and Roscoes. They all do different things and they cater to different tastes and requirements. We need to consider how any incoming board is going to handle these different interests. If you are going to need an $80K bobsled with a 4 banger just to get to entry level, then it won"t be much good to me with my old dirt-bag EA81 machine. If airport entry/above 500 is not important (and it mightn"t be for a lot of the members) then that ain"t much good to me either. The local CTAF (or what used to be CTAF airport) is only 8km from my front door, so I need to be able to mix it with other forms of aviation to be able to fly freely.

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        • #19
          Geez Fred, I am not retired bludger like you. :"( I just mentioned it, the RAA alternative, but there have been a few comments around the traps so I will have a bit of a look and report back.Alright I will not play Firebird for a bit and have a look see. Aero club committe meeting tonight but tomorrow I will have a bit of a chase around.Aussie Paul.

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          • #20
            This is the Template for Resumes that I introduced for this year"s election, so at least everyone"s Resume layout would be similar, they would be answering the same questions in the same order, and hopefully letting people know what they stand for and what they expect to put into ASRA and the results they hope to achieve. It should result in making it easier for the members to see what people are about, and which positions they are willing to stand for, and what they are capable of doing for the Association.I have added my Resume just to give you an idea.

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            • #21
              Hi Llewella. rumours abound as to whether you, John,and Adrian have withdrawn your nominations ??Would you mind confirming or denying it please?Aussie Paul.

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              • #22
                FW Fred and anyone interested. I did have a bit of a look at the RAA option as you requested. Other than aircraft regos being dearer costs are around the same.I spoke to the RAA CEO and was told that the RAA would certainly have no objections to sitting down with a delegation from the gyro community and having discussions.I spoke to CASA. Robbie Glenn now holds the position responsible. He was at Oshkosh so I spoke to the guy who is keeping Robs seat warm. I was told that CASA would probably have no objections to the gyro community joining the RAA. He even went on to say that it could possibly be beneficial to CASA administration wise.So that got two possible hurdles out of the way. So I had a look at the RAA web site ops manual etc and found very little difference as the ASRA one was based on the RAA one which was approved by CASA. The entry level people, to me, a most important part of any flying discipline, are certainly looked after by the RAA. You can start with a basic certificate and a basic single place and fly without any need for radios, airport, or cross country ratings. Those ratings are available to people if they want to go in the more structured with more privileges direction.Disadvantages. There did not seem to be any disadvantages, other than losing some autonomy, (is that the right word?) to being under the RAA banner along with all the other recreation flying disciplines.Benefits, we would only need a couple of qualified volunteers. According to the RAA CEO we would need a gyro flying training come safety officer and a gyroplane dedicated technical officer. The gyro people would be responsible for gyroplane accident investigation. So really, two suitably qualified people could look after those three areas. All the paperwork would conducted by the RAA, already in place, infrastructure,which is already doing the paperwork for several thousand aircraft, so maybe a few hundred more would not be a problem.Being part of an organisation of between 5000 and 6000 members, representing all recreational flyers could possibly have advantages. More political clout if the sh#t hit the fan for any reason to ground or limit recreational flying. The commercial use of recreational aircraft, the fight for a higher MTOW of 750KG etc are already happening. I know that ASRA have been looking at the commercial use of recreational aircraft for mustering. I would imagine it would happen more quickly from a single representative organisation.So, at the end of the day the above is what I found. Here is the link to the RAA site if people have not already had a look.

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                • #23
                  Guys,The rumor is correct I have withdrawn my nomination and am no longer available for Board or appointee positions. I am still intending to serve the membership through my TA and Instructing authorities both of which I offer at no charge when time permits. Adrian

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                  • #24
                    Thanks for clearing that up Adrian, and for your help to members needing help.Aussie Paul.

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                    • #25
                      So, Paul what would the rule book say about, home built craft (gyros) would be the effect there if any?

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                      • #26
                        Thanks Paul,That is certainly something to consider in the coming days. Does there appear to be much interest from gyro people?Cheers

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                        • #27
                          Thanks Paul,That is certainly something to consider in the coming days. Does there appear to be much interest from gyro people?CheersFred, since my mention of RAA I have recieved emails and phone calls re the subject. Actually more than I would have expected with my political baggage, so maybe worthwhile for the ASRA Board to investigate.At the moment I need an ops manager to certify Firebird. There are several of us with new two seaters waiting for an ops manager to be appointed. Aussie Paul.

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                          • #28
                            [At the moment I need an ops manager to certify Firebird. There are several of us with new two seaters waiting for an ops manager to be appointed. Aussie Paul.

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                            • #29
                              I may stand to be corrected here but all you did need was for the machine to be signed off to the Approved Gyroplane Standards by a suitably qualified TA. The form was then sent into the Gyroplane Registrar (who used to be the Technical Manager, and is now Llewella)

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                              • #30
                                So, Paul what would the rule book say about, home built craft (gyros) would be the effect there if any?David, I could not find any reason that home built would be any different than it is now, other than the RAA guys can only train in factory built aircraft. That could not possibly work with gyros. So, yes a few things would need to be ironed out. I think common sense would prevail as we already have the things we require in our ops manual approved by the CASA.The more I look at the scenario of strength in number to fight any govt legislation to limit recreational gyro flying. It probably won’t but it could happen, and if it did I would think that an organisation that represents all recreational flyers with a single voice would have more clout.I was asked by Fred to look into it and so I have had to take an interest, and have a good think about the possible scenarios for the gyro community for the next 20 years.I really don"t know yet, but a picture is emerging.Aussie Paul.

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