Passenger carrying/ Cross country

[Ken Watson]

I'm interested to know why it was changed so that now you have to have a cross country endorsement before you can get a passenger carrying endorsement. For someone like myself who flies in close proximity to my property and really doesn't wish to go much further it seems a bit overkill. Ultralights don't have this requirement and I was wondering if it is a condition CASA has put on us? How many pilots currently have a passenger endorsement but no cross country?(under the previous rule). Windsock Ken

[asra]

Also Ken, now you cannot get approval for licenced airports and to 5000' unless you have a cross country endoresment. This is another rule that we have to operate under that other recreational flying diciplines do not. Personally I dissagree with both. All you should have to do is meet the standard.The rules seem to be getting out of hand, and seem to be worse for us than other recreational flying diciplines do not.My question is the same as yours. How come????Aussie Paul.[]www.firebirdgyros.com

[Brian]

The FW fraternity have had the restricted and unrestricted licence requirements as long as I can remember and I personaly think a cross country endorsment is a good thing as there are a number of factors that come into play once you start flying long distances or C/C eg, navigation, weather, restricted areas etc etc.Brian

[Waddles]

Gidday Ken,CASA did not put this condition on us. It was agreed to at several consultative meetings regarding the Ops Manual as a whole.We can go back to what it was before if you like, but that means you will have to hold an instructor rating to carry passengers.ASRA has a duty of care, and for that reason it was decided that the requirement for a cross country endorsement would expose a pilot to at least one more check flight before being tested for a passenger carriage endorsement. It was also the consensus of these meetings that it would be highly unlikely that a pilot without a cross country endorsement would confine himself to circuits at his local aerodrome with his wife, girlfriend or best mate on board. The pressure to go just a little bit further would be enormous, regardless of the legality.Paul refers to certain conditions that are put for operations above 500'AGL and into licenced aerodromes. This must be something that CASA does. ASRA cannot as yet issued such dispensations, and as far as these go, it is entirely at the discretion of CASA. ASRA has no say other than to strongly recommend that a particular application is denied. This has never happened.I acknowledge that in some areas, ultralights appear to have certain privileges that do not extend to gyros. It should also be noted that we have certain privileges that ultralights do not have. I believe that overall, we win.Hope this answers your questions.Regards,Waddles.

[Ken Watson]

Yeah, fair enough Allan, I accept that. Ken

[wflaks]

Hi AllanRe-Passenger carriage endorsement, sec.2.08If I meet the entire requirement to carry passenger excluding cross-country endorsement, and obtained approval from the Opp. Manager, would I be able to fly with in the training area with a passenger?Walter

[asra]

Or up to 25 nm from initial point of departure, if I remember correctly.Aussie Paul. []www.firebirdgyros.com

[wflaks]

Thank you Paul.You are quoting the old A.S.R.A. rules and other sports aviation rules.Read 2.05-8 carefully, A.S.R.A.s currant Opps. Manual.But.In G.A. a pilot can carry a passenger after he obtains the O.K. from his instructor and then he must fly in the training area only.Can anyone tell me if a training area must be certain shape?

[Waddles]

Gidday Wal & Paul,I am still "hiding" in Auckland, so I don't have access to all my paperwork.I'll have to take notes from here, then go back to my room and refer to the Ops Manual sections in question. Stay tuned.Waddles.

[asra]

Good to see you are up and about AllanTedStrongly opposed to the retriction of free speech

[asra]

Hi Waddles, hope your on the mend. Maybe while you're there you could get together with Paul as he reckons he is over there at the minute training a new generation of New Zealanders. I reckon he has another agenda and packs his velcro gloves when he goes over there.Pete

[wflaks]

Hi Allan nice to hear from you.Allan you are the judge, please correct us if we are wrong.Please members stayed focused on the question.Questions are open all members from the novice students pilot to the most senior pilots.Walter

[asra]

Regardless of the Regs, I personally would insist on a cross-country endorsement before allowing a pilot to take up a passenger. It's one thing to take responsibility for your own life, but it altogether another when another's life is involved. It is not a huge ask to qualify for a cross-country endorsement and it takes the pilot one notch up the ladder of proficiency.Pete

[wflaks]

PeteKnowledge is your greatest asset.Please stay focused on the question.There are other member who would like to learn.If you know the answer, than asnwer it.Walter

[asra]

This item is of general interest and not just yours to direct, and I am having my say. I'f you don't need a cross-country endorsement, then you should.Pete