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Hi All I have just purchased a new old kit that rosco cut. The plans aren't really, more like drawings and the way it's drawn up I don't think it's a great design, but i'm a newbie so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. Wanted to try and build once as a clt machine rather than rehash it later. Help opinions, plans and idea's are all welcome and appreciated I have the following parts to try and achieve my goals with : 3 2 metre lengths of 2 by 2 1/2 inch aluminium 1 2 metre length of 1 by 2 inch aluminium 1 1 metre length of 200 by 3 mm aluminium 72 inch warp drive rotax c box twin carb ea 81 motor mount adapter plate roscoe rotor head roscoe controls roscoe suspension and I guess front wheel and rear wheels seat tank sundry other parts instruments Thanks and regards MarkAdelaide River N.T.
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Hi Mark, you have the gear to make a great gyro. Points to take into account to build you "toy" to a CLT gyro is to;1) Have the prop center below the engine crank, 2) step the keel an extra 2" or 3" than the Rosco standard design, 3) Angle the rear keel back up at approx 3 degrees, 4) Make the h/stab 50% larger than Rosco's.I think that it would be better if we communicated privately with this, as I have lots of pics of Rosco machines that I have modified to CLT, and they have proven to be extremely stable. The Rosco gear is excellent stuff.My pleasure to help. An exciting time ahead for you Mark!!!
]Aussie Paul.[
]www.firebirdgyros.com
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Well done , Mark . Take your time building your new machine & enjoy the results. I have built two machines using Rosco gear , you won't find any better.Eric
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Mark,Strongly suggest you speak to Ross Bannerman, who has just converted his HTL Rossco into a CLT machine, essentially everything forward of the mast went up 12", end of story. Speak to him and save yourself some time and angst.Regards,Nicholas TomlinAlarmist - www.alarmist.com.au - we scare for you
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Thanks Nick.Ross would love to see your new pride and joy.How about posting a pic of it in progress or finished state.Thanks Regards Sam.Sam.Melbourne Vic.
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Here's Ross Bannermen:http://www.asra.org.au/forum/pop_pro...379Sam,I'm a little confused, I think you mean Ross Bannerman's machine? I'll attach photo's of mine if you wish but it ranks with Birdy's feral in terms of appearances.I'll be going to Denman this week end so I'll take some photo's of Ross' Machine and attempt to post them around wednesday.Ross' conversion on his machine was devilishly simple, He more or less left the Rossco frame as it was and put in a new keel section parallel and on top of the existing keel, made new friction grip mast plates and then propped it on posts and angles 12" the height difference. Extended the steering bell crank for the nose wheel and improved his turn radius. It looks like a Montgomery Merlin for all intensive purposes, according to Ross it was good as it was but now it is better - more speed [better streamlined] and more stable / predictable. He's also turning out som amazing fuel consumption figures - more like driving a car than flying a gyro, the 76" prop is a good one.Hope this helps..Nicholas TomlinAlarmist - www.alarmist.com.au - we scare for you
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Sorry mate, I seem to have missed a commer.Yes I would love to see his mods, and a pic would be great.It would hopefully demonstrate just how easy it is to modify a good machine into a great machine. Thanks !!!Regards SamSam.Melbourne Vic.
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Mark,Good to see another potential machine on the go.However, I have to ask the question. Why do you want to deviate from what for all intents and purposes is a machine that is designed to fly by some one who knows what he is doing?I have flown in Rosco machines and there is nothing wrong with what they do....Fly.It seems to me that CLT is a state of mind. How are you going to achieve clt? How fat are you? How tall is the mast? How big are the rotors? How much drag does your machine have? How fast are you going to fly? (big question!)How do you know all these things until you have flown the bloody thing? My experience proves at least to me that you dont stop building your machine after your first flight and one only had to watch some of the quality landings at the last Nationals to realise that not everyone flys their machine the same way.(Ive had two crashes and never landed as heavily as some guys at Cooma!)Lifting everything up 12 inches may only make your machine one foot higher to get into and you might find it flies like the brown tube that comes from a dogs bottom.My advice is to talk to the guy who designed your machine, he probably has built as many machines as some prominent wordsmiths (eggheads) on this forum have left posts.
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CLT a state of mind[:0]Aussie Paul[]Download Attachment: [img]icon_paperclip.gif[/img] Longitudinal Stability of Gyroplanes pages 1 to 4.doc57.35
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Adelaide river Mark, A Rosco machine is a good solid well developed gyro and they do fly well, are safe and have the benefit of many thousands of flying time which many gyro types dont have !!Having said that, there is evidence that CLT [or near CLT]is a safer option but I have a Rosco gyro which has done over 4,000 hours now so they are very flyable.I think CLT is also easier to fly so thats another consideration.You can always talk with Rosco, his motto is the customer is always right and his workmanship is very very good !!BrianPooncarie NSW
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mark,To offset what you say, lifting just the components forward of the mast by 12" was found to make the machine fly better, that isn't my experience, that is Ross Bannerman's experience, he said it was that it was good and then with the shift was better, in all ways. [ He just may have been inspired by the fly that he had in my machine before Christmas, it is close to CLT ]If the man wants to build it closer to CLT than it would be, I can only commend him to the project.Paul,Good shot, nice to re read Jean's article, thanks for posting it.Nicholas TomlinAlarmist - www.alarmist.com.au - we scare for you
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Having no flight experience except for seconds before crashes , I'ed say anything you can do to make a gyro Better is a thing worth doing !I attempted to make my HTL machine into a CLT but didn't raise the pilot and so it failed miserably i still have a 6" thrustline offset. I can change that and will one of these days to be sure.... just be aware that a CLT machine is typically top heavy and they like to tip over easier than conventional HTL machines...but even with that bad news the good out weighs the bad in almost every respect in my book !C ya Bob........" Momm'a alwayse told me , Son the impossable is only a little bit Harder... and ya know I do believe She was RIGHT ! "
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quote:Originally posted by BrianAdelaide river Mark, A Rosco machine is a good solid well developed gyro and they do fly well, are safe and have the benefit of many thousands of flying time which many gyro types dont have !!Having said that, there is evidence that CLT [or near CLT]is a safer option but I have a Rosco gyro which has done over 4,000 hours now so they are very flyable.I think CLT is also easier to fly so thats another consideration.You can always talk with Rosco, his motto is the customer is always right and his workmanship is very very good !!BrianPooncarie NSW[^]Excellent post Brian with the exception of "safe". "Safe" is fine BUT they are not as safe as they can be made. I use Rosco gear whenever possible and believe that his gear, and the development of that gear, is as good as there is in the world.Rosco has been the backbone of gyros for the station people for many years with his reliability. Of course Tim is not far behind with the support for gyro people. Between the two of them they have been and are a boon to the industry. No one could possibly deny that.Aussie Paul.[]www.firebirdgyros.com
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Probably the safest gyro is the one that has never left the shed so of course, there are diferent variations of 'safe'!I stand by my 'safe' comment in the knowledge that anyone flying a 'Rosco' can breathe easy knowing all components have thousands of hours of comonent testing time in them and thats not having a shot at you Paul or anyone else developing a new gyro BUT I did say that there is evidence that a CLT or near CLT is SAFER !!! In years to come, we will see changes and hopefully will result in even 'safer' gyros. Of course, a 'safe ' gyro is of little use if the pilot isnt well trained too, so training is an intregal part of the equation.BrianPooncarie NSW
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dear eggheads,That raw nerve flares up when it is touched, doent it? As usual the zelots in life always seem miss the point.Ultimately, brian is correct, as usual, because he is blessed with common sense.he quite rightly said that the safest gyro is the one that never left the shed.This makes the myhtical "flamechook" (retail model) the Guinnes book of records holder for the aircraft that hs never had a bingle.Thanks be to paul for his gift to the world.To the other zelot, The point that you so often miss, is that most people dont obsess about gyroplanes to your **** levels. If I were you I would move to a place where every time I thought about my Gyro, I could walk outside, push it out of the shed and go for a fly!.What you two blokes need to understand is this bloke wants to build his gyro, let him build it the way it was designed. If you really want to pratt on about safety, these machines are flown every day by pilots with TENS of THOUSANDS of hours,for thousands and thousands of hours.Id say they are pretty safe?Mark, One thing you didnt say, are you flying yet? If you arent, build yours when you know how gyros fly and how you want to fly it.Mark.
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