Tweet
Its been sujested that towing the gyro without the engine running is a great ideafor a biginner to learn to fly a gyro, asumeing you have the room and available help and equipment....with that in mind , where would the best hookup point be for the tow rope ?obviously not just anywhere , i would think as far foward as possable and in the centerline of the gyro. I also think that a quick release would be a good safty thing. what other considerations are needed when towing the gyro as a glider ? like Brakes ? .glasses for eye protection ? ( I alwayse have something over my eyes)...Even the thought of being Towed in my gyro scares me ! having no control of the ground speed is just begging to flip over ! getting a bit crossed up and then the tow rope yanks you back into a diferent direction... that has got to be more dangerous than doing it with the engine alone.... and you don't have the wory of running into the tow vehicle..... I spent many a trip being towed home by a car on a motorcycle that quit running.... and its altogather diferent than normal rideing i asure you, How could being towed in a gyro be any diferent than the Motorcycle being towed ,in that is is Dangerous as Hell ! much more than normal ... ? so what is it, is it like "if you can survive being towed in a gyro you can fly anything ??? " It just doesn't sound "Very Smart " to me ! I know how things react on the end of a tow rope... most of the time its not purdy eather . , though being towed at 50mph on a dirt road in a go-kart frame was fun as hell, it also put me under the bumper of the truck one time . then you consider the unprodictability of the wind and try to fly along behind a vehicle that way. BUT, if every thing goes right it SHOULD be fine .... just don't seam right ! Your comments Pro and Con Pleasethank ya !Bob......." Momm'a alwayse told me , Son the impossable is only a little bit Harder... and ya know I do believe She was RIGHT ! "
-
-
Bob!! It is all in the Bensen manuals. It is not a go kart or a broken down motor bike. Gyro gliding has been conducted for many years and at this point in time you have no idea how a gyro operates being towed. Stop making excuses and finding problems that don't exist. Bob, for Gods sake read the BLOODY Bensen manual. I am beginning to wonder if you even have a Bensen manual, let alone read it.[
!]I was gyrogliding when I was 12 years old in 1961. I am sure my Dad would not have put me in a powered machine at that time!!!!Attached a couple of pics, you have see how the tow point is where the prop thrust line would be and thewre is a cable from the toe point up to the rotor head to give the correct geometry.Good luck with it Bob. Some of my nicest flying was gyro gliding as a kid. My dad used to put my younger brothers and sisters on his knee and give them a ride. He even took his mother approx 5'1" tall flying with me driving the car at 12 years old!!![:0] His mother was sent out by his brothers and sister to tell Dad that he should be more resposible with a young family. One trip in the gyro glider and no one in the family could say a word to, "Little Nan" as she was known to us, against my Dad and his gyroplanes.[
]Aussie Paul.[
]Image Insert:
18.06 KBImage Insert:
26.48
-
Bob de'K,Get some instructions, please! You will learn more quickly and at less cost, what you are doing is a false economy.Your comments, as far as I can read them, show a yawning gulf of ignorance of the facts of gyroplanes. It is not the same as being towed on a motorbike. It is better, motorbikes can't fly.As Paul intimates, gyro gliders have been around for a long time, and they are a very credible way to learn how to fly a gyro, especially if you fly one first, then drive the tow car. Flying one first teaches you the take off and landing technique, and you can't got too far from the ground so as to do yourself some real mischief. Driving the car teaches you how the throttle works to get you off the ground.I learned how to fly in a gyro glider, I had a very capable instructor and equally helpful tow drivers. I don't have my log book to tell you how many, but I spent some hours in a gyro glider learning the basics, rotor management, take offs and landings. I wouldn't let John off the rig until I had six perfect landings in a row, by which time he was sick of it and I'm sure was tempted to tell me to bugger off and fly it myself. I did fly it and enjoyed it immensly, without my 'passenger' the glider leapt into the air and flew so easily, it was fun. Everything I did in that glider is still with me, my judgement of speed to land, the right type of touch down, the when and where of power, all those things.This was not without incident though, we had once incidence of near 'flap' / hinging / blade sail, what ever you want to call it, and I was shown how to deal with it. Had John not been there, I wouldn't have had a clue on what to do, so he saved the day. This is the greatest concern I have for you Bob, what you don't know and what you have not experienced. Marcus H gave you a good idea of what happens when props depart company, that was his experience... Paul is trying to help you, that is his experience, along with Birdy and everyone else that has said anything to you, they speak from their experience. My training is a distillation of probably thousands of hours of very worthy persons time, you get it through just talking to other pilots in all the bull**** that we go through every week end, it might only be a snippet, but it may just save your life, you're missing out on all this Bob.Might I suggest to you Paul, that if Bob has a Benson Manual, and you both have 'skype' software so you can talk to each other for next to nothing, that you do a Q and A on the manual, and go over it time and again until it would appear Bob knows the manual back to front.Get some instruction Bob de K!Nicholas TomlinAlarmist - www.alarmist.com.au - we scare for you
Comment
-
Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee's PaulIf my maths is right, that would make you 57 years old, not bad for a young bloke like yourself !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.Sam.Melbourne Vic.
Comment
-
This could mean that 'Ol Bod' is actually younger than you Paul.PeteBairnsdale,Vic.
Comment
-
quote:Originally posted by SamLGeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee's PaulIf my maths is right, that would make you 57 years old, not bad for a young bloke like yourself !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.Sam.Melbourne Vic.Pete and Same, you pack of mathematical bastards, I am not 57 until the 20th of June boys. Don't forget that with age comes experience if you started early enough, and I think I may have.My experienced includes 30 years of not bending anything and then several mishaps making contributions to the super funds of the rotor blade and prop manufacturers etc!![:0]I have accumulated a bit over 5000 hours, since 1982, and still make bloody mistakes!!! BUT there are people on these forums that do not fly, or have flown only a little, and are proud of their non accident record!!!! I would not swap at all!!!! I like to learn by my own and others mistakes, preferably others!![]One mistake that I will not make again is to upset the wonderful ARSA, oops I mean the ASRA Board!
]I've maintained my sense of humour, I hope that Board has!!![^]Aussie Paul.[]www.firebirdgyros.com
Comment
-
Well, hearing no Nay sayers , I asume that the glideing of the gyro is relitively safe, and Yes Paul i read that in the benson manual it may well be a bible to you , but it is just a guide to me . there is a diference, everything on the powered flight, I have been following carefully. Remember its not like i live at sea level and being towed at 20 mph will get me flying as a glider.... yes its an excuse Paul , its also a consideration !obviously you guys don't see the similirity of towing a motorcycle but believe me there is a real big similirity here, no the bike won't fly while the wheels are down !but it can fly if your not real carefull ! .... nevertheless as you guys say towing a glider has been done for many years , I watched it being done in LasVegas on a dry lake when I was about 16 yrs old, there were no jurks or yanks that have me worried so much , it was a smothe acceleration to about 30mph and the fella flew behind the truck the entire length of the dry lake ... he did that many times that day. later that same summer he was out there with the VW engine in the gyro and flying along at 1 ft or so.... and worked up to flying arround the lake completely !... never did get the fellers name , but it did make an impression on me. OK , I'll see what I can do to get my Dad to tow me in the gyro..... no promices ! but i'll.... WORK ON IT ! I can almost asure you why Paul is so adimate about this, lets see if i got it right Paul.... I need to feel the sensation of the machine in flight, and know how the rotors react, and sense the gyro is Under powered, being towed will get me past where the engine runs out of HP and get me in the air easy...and I can feel the thing besides it being good practice, it should teach me Rotor management rather fast.... is that about right Paul ? what else am I missing here ? after all its important to know what your trying to learn before you try to learn it ! thanks for the input fellers ! Bob...." Momm'a alwayse told me , Son the impossable is only a little bit Harder... and ya know I do believe She was RIGHT ! "
Comment
-
Well, hearing no Nay sayers , I asume that the glideing of the gyro is relitively safe, and Yes Paul i read that in the benson manual it may well be a bible to you , but it is just a guide to me . there is a diference, everything on the powered flight, I have been following carefully. Remember its not like i live at sea level and being towed at 20 mph will get me flying as a glider.... yes its an excuse Paul , its also a consideration !obviously you guys don't see the similirity of towing a motorcycle but believe me there is a real big similirity here, no the bike won't fly while the wheels are down !but it can fly if your not real carefull ! .... nevertheless as you guys say towing a glider has been done for many years , I watched it being done in LasVegas on a dry lake when I was about 16 yrs old, there were no jurks or yanks that have me worried so much , it was a smothe acceleration to about 30mph and the fella flew behind the truck the entire length of the dry lake ... he did that many times that day. later that same summer he was out there with the VW engine in the gyro and flying along at 1 ft or so.... and worked up to flying arround the lake completely !... never did get the fellers name , but it did make an impression on me. OK , I'll see what I can do to get my Dad to tow me in the gyro..... no promices ! but i'll.... WORK ON IT ! I can almost asure you why Paul is so adimate about this, lets see if i got it right Paul.... I need to feel the sensation of the machine in flight, and know how the rotors react, and sense the gyro is Under powered, being towed will get me past where the engine runs out of HP and get me in the air easy...and I can feel the thing besides it being good practice, it should teach me Rotor management rather fast.... is that about right Paul ? what else am I missing here ? after all its important to know what your trying to learn before you try to learn it ! thanks for the input fellers ! Bob...." Momm'a alwayse told me , Son the impossable is only a little bit Harder... and ya know I do believe She was RIGHT ! "
Comment
-
Now were getting there Bob. Your Dad only has to be as good as a 12 year old!!!!Bob, you said,I can almost asure you why Paul is so adimate about this, lets see if i got it right Paul.... I need to feel the sensation of the machine in flight, and know how the rotors react, and sense the gyro is Under powered, being towed will get me past where the engine runs out of HP and get me in the air easy...and I can feel the thingbesides it being good practice, it should teach me Rotor management rather fast....is that about right Paul ? Spot on.Aussie Paul.[]www.firebirdgyros.com
Comment
-
Now were getting there Bob. Your Dad only has to be as good as a 12 year old!!!!Bob, you said,I can almost asure you why Paul is so adimate about this, lets see if i got it right Paul.... I need to feel the sensation of the machine in flight, and know how the rotors react, and sense the gyro is Under powered, being towed will get me past where the engine runs out of HP and get me in the air easy...and I can feel the thingbesides it being good practice, it should teach me Rotor management rather fast....is that about right Paul ? Spot on.Aussie Paul.[]www.firebirdgyros.com
Comment
-
No, Pete but perhaps at heart.Then again, it maybe my second childhood ?Anyway, what fun, eh.Cheers.Robert DunnMackay. Qld.Growing old is good while it lasts.
Comment
-
No, Pete but perhaps at heart.Then again, it maybe my second childhood ?Anyway, what fun, eh.Cheers.Robert DunnMackay. Qld.Growing old is good while it lasts.
Comment
-
Ok, the hookup then.... a bit fuzzy about that part.... as I could see no cables in the pics.... Prop centerline , extended foward foward puts the tow rope about 18" above the keel tube on me gyro, to do that , a cable from the main keel tube to the mast headand attached at a point say 18" up from the keel in a V shape to give clearance to everything.... this arrangement sounds like it would pull on th mast head before the keel tube to me while on the ground and thats not good at all.... but I may well be premature on that assumption. .... I would leve the engine on for the pre rotator or attach a small engine to turn it in the Rotexes place, as the sir strip is short 1400 to 1500ft longI don't have brakes on the main wheels or the front wheel eather and cannot touch the ground while seated but I am hopeing the rotor tilted back will act as a good brake when stopping at the end of a run..... it should anyway.I like the idea of removeing the engine to keep away from possable dammage to the little jewel at the very least removeing the prop I figure a 200ft rope or at the very least 150ft .... a simple "truckers half hitch " would suffice for quick release if the ropes end was hung where I could get at it in a hurry . I don't expect there to be much call to release the gyro except in the turn arrounds hard to say at this point. might be better to just tie it to a steel clevis and have it Simi- perminant, another unknown .... with the engine off the gyro it would be 100 lbs lighter, and should therefore get off the ground alot easier... its a mear 30 min job to remove the engine so thats not realy that big of a deal......however the haing would be all messed up with out the engine on there.... so it might be better to just leave the engine and all on there...what do you sujest fellers ?does that sound right for the hookup Paul ? or should I afix the leg that goes to the keel solidly so the gyro can't sway behind the cable ? the post could be solidly anchored to the keel and a cable from it to the mast to give an even pull, .... infact upon thinking about it thats the way to go.... as I already have the said Post there all I have to do is turn it arround and anchor it good ! the insterment pod sets on a 2x2 alum post turning the post arround so it angles foward cures the hookup problem completely . just need to reinforce stuff is all.Sound Good ???....so here's the plan.... leave the engine on, remove the prop.... hook up the tow attachment point to be in-line with the prop thrustline in the center of the gyro's frame....and go try to fly it a foot or so off the ground being towed.I'll use the engine to pre rotate the rotor before starting a run...... that should make the short airfeild long enough for a decent flight....(.and see if I can get one of the fellers at the PRA chapter 5 to give me a ride in a 2 place ! .... still working on that .... ) ..........And I think O'lBod is alot older than that ! , I suspect he was a Kid when the dinosaurs were still runnin arround so don't believe him guys ! hehehe !Catcha ya later and thanks fer the help !Bob......" Momm'a alwayse told me , Son the impossable is only a little bit Harder... and ya know I do believe She was RIGHT ! "
Comment
-
Ok, the hookup then.... a bit fuzzy about that part.... as I could see no cables in the pics.... Prop centerline , extended foward foward puts the tow rope about 18" above the keel tube on me gyro, to do that , a cable from the main keel tube to the mast headand attached at a point say 18" up from the keel in a V shape to give clearance to everything.... this arrangement sounds like it would pull on th mast head before the keel tube to me while on the ground and thats not good at all.... but I may well be premature on that assumption. .... I would leve the engine on for the pre rotator or attach a small engine to turn it in the Rotexes place, as the sir strip is short 1400 to 1500ft longI don't have brakes on the main wheels or the front wheel eather and cannot touch the ground while seated but I am hopeing the rotor tilted back will act as a good brake when stopping at the end of a run..... it should anyway.I like the idea of removeing the engine to keep away from possable dammage to the little jewel at the very least removeing the prop I figure a 200ft rope or at the very least 150ft .... a simple "truckers half hitch " would suffice for quick release if the ropes end was hung where I could get at it in a hurry . I don't expect there to be much call to release the gyro except in the turn arrounds hard to say at this point. might be better to just tie it to a steel clevis and have it Simi- perminant, another unknown .... with the engine off the gyro it would be 100 lbs lighter, and should therefore get off the ground alot easier... its a mear 30 min job to remove the engine so thats not realy that big of a deal......however the haing would be all messed up with out the engine on there.... so it might be better to just leave the engine and all on there...what do you sujest fellers ?does that sound right for the hookup Paul ? or should I afix the leg that goes to the keel solidly so the gyro can't sway behind the cable ? the post could be solidly anchored to the keel and a cable from it to the mast to give an even pull, .... infact upon thinking about it thats the way to go.... as I already have the said Post there all I have to do is turn it arround and anchor it good ! the insterment pod sets on a 2x2 alum post turning the post arround so it angles foward cures the hookup problem completely . just need to reinforce stuff is all.Sound Good ???....so here's the plan.... leave the engine on, remove the prop.... hook up the tow attachment point to be in-line with the prop thrustline in the center of the gyro's frame....and go try to fly it a foot or so off the ground being towed.I'll use the engine to pre rotate the rotor before starting a run...... that should make the short airfeild long enough for a decent flight....(.and see if I can get one of the fellers at the PRA chapter 5 to give me a ride in a 2 place ! .... still working on that .... ) ..........And I think O'lBod is alot older than that ! , I suspect he was a Kid when the dinosaurs were still runnin arround so don't believe him guys ! hehehe !Catcha ya later and thanks fer the help !Bob......" Momm'a alwayse told me , Son the impossable is only a little bit Harder... and ya know I do believe She was RIGHT ! "
Comment
-
Righto.I only look and sometimes feel that old.I will have you know that I dont yet havta lean up against a postor sit down to put me pants on!Robert DunnMackay. Qld.Growing old is good while it lasts.
Comment
Comment