Tall Tail Manufacture.

[Greg Mitchell]

G"Day Gents,Finished my tail, now I"m in the process of manufacturing my first Tall Tail.Mitch.

[Greg Mitchell]

Busy Day....lay-up two halves and intend to join them tomorrow, then set the blue section with spar to create the Tall tail.Mitch

[NiqueNaque]

Mitch,So you"re knocking this up as the two bottom sections of the tail to make it into a tall tail.What does the resulting airfoil section look like in the horizontal stab?Will you have to compensate for anything by virtue of a difference in shape?Cheers,Nick.

[Greg Mitchell]

G"Day Nick,YES DUNNO YET NUP :-*All the Golden Butterfly Tandems have these tails. I see if I can find a pic of Golden Tail.Cheers,Mitch

[Greg Mitchell]

Here you go Nick. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[NiqueNaque]

So it should be a symetrical shape, may pay to incline the axis forward to give it a very slight negative incidence - no doubt Larry will have all the numbers / answers you require.Any idea of how it performs in a vertical down? Has Larry tested that aspect of how it performs?Cheers,Nick.

[Greg Mitchell]

Hello Nick,Should it be a symetrical shape?........If you want you can have a flate plate. Larry is very pleased with the numerous tall tails flying on Golden Butterflys in the USA.I have all the answers I rerquire.Check out the numerous videos on www.thebutterflyllc.com to see how the tail performs.Larry tests everything to the max.The tails on the Butterfly, Monarchs and Goldens are all manufactured to have the HS in line with the keel. I believe Jim Mayfield did the same with the SparrowHawk. This way when you add power you do not impose a nose up or down moment. I am not of the school that says you require negative incidence and

[Greg Mitchell]

Taking shape.

[Adrian S]

Mitch,Iam interested in one of your tall tails for the club two seater I am building over here, when do you think you will release them onto the market and how much?Thanks,Adrian

[Greg Mitchell]

Adrian,This one is for Allan, which I will deliver to him at Lameroo. I will just have room.Perhaps you could inform me as to the hrs I need to fly off my T tail and Allan"s Tall Tail before they are deemed safe for the market. Lameroo will be a good test for mine, as I arrive Monday, so it will have a busy week. Ground static thrust tests and local taxiing have not produced any defects or weakness" yet. All things being equal, I will take orders at Lameroo and delivery of the first tail could be within 4 weeks.They will be expensive!!! They will be comparably priced to other local product.Adrian you were right about being realistic with the weight....I"m killing 100 kgs. Hmm...poor little 503.Cheers,Mitch.

[Adrian S]

Mitch,I catch up with you at Kevins and we can talk a deal!Regarding the hours & testing etc we dont prescribe a specific time when it comes to products that dont come as part of a complete gyro but I recommend that a min of 25hrs of safe operation is a good start.See you at Lameroo,Adrian

[Greg Mitchell]

Hello Adrian,Looking forward to it. Mitch.

[NiqueNaque]

Hello Nick,Should it be a symetrical shape?........If you want you can have a flate plate. A flate plate is a symetrical shape, most usually.Similarly, it would appear that Jeff H is not necessarily convinced by recent events that a twin tail is not the way to go........... Everybody in the gyro world has a point of view with regard to design concepts and this is good.I had a chat with Jeff about this one, he was lucky to make it down in one piece but it gives credit to the strength of his designs. The violent winds that caused the machine to do what it did probably would have seen others come a cropper. I can"t help but think that Jeff"s design is close to Ken Rehler"s design in respect of its size and location of his rudders.I dont know how good my tails will be till we fly some time off them. They are the same shape exactly as the USA tail only difference is I used a heavier glass cloth double bias in between two 10 oz cloth and polyester resin with a gelcoat.Well... Given that the present T tail of the butterfly seems to be quite effective then I have no doubt that with double the area the tall tail will be effective, the principal thing that will offset the doubled size is the fact that you may have to locate it much closer to the prop so that you can obtain clearance off the rotor when tilted back and with full flap down. Have you done any moment of area calculations?USA tail has the 10 oz outer and inner with a slightly lighter double bias Kevlar cloth in the middle, and using epoxy resins, so no gelcoat .

[Greg Mitchell]

"A flate plate is a symetrical shape, most usually."You got that one right Nick.No nothing of what you speak with respect to JeffHS and whatever happened to him. I was simply making the connection between the design similarities.

[NiqueNaque]

Greg,**ck that"s rough window work, they can"t even line the mouldings up then, its not that hard - its just they"re lazy or greedy or both.Suggest you get some photos going while you hose the window to show his honour what is actually happening when it rains, though you must not direct the water in any fashion which would not be "rain like" behaviour, most likely you"ve done this already.FWIW - no doubt you have:0.