Batteries

[Brian]

Thanks for the info Pete !! Will investigate further !!Not sure how true this is but I have been told NOT to leave a battery on a cement floor ! Can anyone verifie this or is it fiction ?BrianPooncarie NSW

[Brian]

Thanks for the info Pete !! Will investigate further !!Not sure how true this is but I have been told NOT to leave a battery on a cement floor ! Can anyone verifie this or is it fiction ?BrianPooncarie NSW

[asra]

Brian,I think that has to co with volyage leak. Condensation or dust on the battery may allow a slight current leak to ground. It is good practice for a number of reasons to insulate batteries from the ground. Wood or rubber mat is good.

[asra]

Brian,I think that has to co with volyage leak. Condensation or dust on the battery may allow a slight current leak to ground. It is good practice for a number of reasons to insulate batteries from the ground. Wood or rubber mat is good.

[asra]

Brian,I think that has to co with volyage leak. Condensation or dust on the battery may allow a slight current leak to ground. It is good practice for a number of reasons to insulate batteries from the ground. Wood or rubber mat is good.

[asra]

Brian,I think that has to co with volyage leak. Condensation or dust on the battery may allow a slight current leak to ground. It is good practice for a number of reasons to insulate batteries from the ground. Wood or rubber mat is good.

[dg2829]

quote:Originally posted by Pete BarsdenI have recently been working on updating a 40KVA generator one of the things the generator needs is exactly that a floating charger to keep the battery in a fully charged condition. I would suggest that if you need a charger of this type that runs from mains you contact MACGEN (www.macgen.com) located in Clayton Vic. They have suitable chargers that operate exactly the way you want, I recently obtained one from them output 4 amps (all I needed) cost about $75.00 for that one, it was old stock I believe they still have some of those, but they do have others as well such a 12amp one I have in a bigger genset 145KVA that one was $275 both are designed to keep the battery charged they actually stop charging altogether when required and only top up the battery once the voltage has dropped off to a predetermined level.Another thing, to reduce sulphation of a battery there is an additive for batteries (wet lead acid) now that is now available from Jaycar that will extend the life of a battery. It does actually work! If you put it in when the battery is new the manufacturer will add another 12 months onto your STD battery warranty. We used it in a set of batteries for one of our, now old, UPS systems, the batteries on that UPS are now 11 years old, they are still going, although we will only get till next year from them they approaching the end of their useful life, the other UPS batteries of the same age did not have the additive, they died at 9 years old. It is basically an anti-sulphation, cadnium based formula. Simple but it does work.Concrete has nothing to do with the life of a battery unless you get concrete dust in the battery that's bad.Contaminants they are bad so do not use tap water unless you have no choice battery life will be shortened.Corrosion on battery terminal will shorten the life of the battery, clean with hot water and use petroleum jellyLong term storage, the best way is actually keep it on a suitable charger with an electronic anti-sulphation device connected, you can keep a battery this way for quite a number of years, that when you want to use it is ready to use immediately.Using a battery when its very cold will shorten its life, hence some insulation from the floor will help ese warm it up a bit.For those that might be interested, Ignoring long term storage for optimum battery life, a battery should be kept fully charged using an intelligent charger, regular checks with a hydrometer will tell you when a battery is heading towards end of service life and is also a good way to check fluid levels unless it is a true "sealed for life" battery. If that is the case fluid levels etc are not relevant. Overcharging a battery will destroy it in a fairly short period of time and cause excessive gassing (hydrogen). The best life from a battery that is to be kept in service is to maintain a temp of 20-25 deg C (not always possible) above this temp batteries internal resistance increases reducing it ability to high currents when needed, below this temp batteries chemical reaction is slowed and the battery is unable to deliver the current and the internal resistance drops lower is ideal, so when required the full current is not available when needed, this normally leads to excessive heat being generated in the battery which means that the battery overheats once this starts to happen the plates buckle and the cycle to a very short life occurs. car/marine/motorcycle and similar batteries are specifically designed with this in mind. They have extra reinforcement between and around the plates, etc. This is to stop the plates from moving around due to vibration, heat, cold & so on. Using batteries like say a solar battery is not the way to go these type of batteries are designed for sitting in one place (traction batteries) they are not designed for high short duration bursts of current delivery such as starting an engine, they are designed to deliver power of a long period of time most of these type of batteries use either a 10 or 20 hour discharge rating. They will fail very quickly if used in air/marine/auto & mobile applications. So if use a battery designed to do the job you need it to do, with regular checks of the right type it will last longer and not let you down when you need it "to just work".If you ignore the acid thing for a minute weight for an air application is of course the big issue. Another is how much power does the aircraft need to supply any electrical equipment and still provide a suitable charge to the battery, that I cannot answer you would have to work that out yourself, but having a charging system on a engine that is overrated will simply take extra HP away from the engine wasting HP you want to use for flying.So getting back to batteries (eg motorbike battery) may provide a good option, it is designed with all of the above in mind. It might be suitable the only thing you have to deal with is any gassing that may occur and the overflow if it was to occur both of these are fairly easy to deal with, using a small overflow tank (plastic) and then a coiled vent tube to outside (for enclosed craft) and/or to a suitable location away from engine, people, fuel, structural parts & so on. You should be able to get at least 5 years and often many more years depending on the design life from a correctly chosen battery. If the battery is underrated for the chosen use its working life will be shortened.

[dg2829]

quote:Originally posted by Pete BarsdenI have recently been working on updating a 40KVA generator one of the things the generator needs is exactly that a floating charger to keep the battery in a fully charged condition. I would suggest that if you need a charger of this type that runs from mains you contact MACGEN (www.macgen.com) located in Clayton Vic. They have suitable chargers that operate exactly the way you want, I recently obtained one from them output 4 amps (all I needed) cost about $75.00 for that one, it was old stock I believe they still have some of those, but they do have others as well such a 12amp one I have in a bigger genset 145KVA that one was $275 both are designed to keep the battery charged they actually stop charging altogether when required and only top up the battery once the voltage has dropped off to a predetermined level.Another thing, to reduce sulphation of a battery there is an additive for batteries (wet lead acid) now that is now available from Jaycar that will extend the life of a battery. It does actually work! If you put it in when the battery is new the manufacturer will add another 12 months onto your STD battery warranty. We used it in a set of batteries for one of our, now old, UPS systems, the batteries on that UPS are now 11 years old, they are still going, although we will only get till next year from them they approaching the end of their useful life, the other UPS batteries of the same age did not have the additive, they died at 9 years old. It is basically an anti-sulphation, cadnium based formula. Simple but it does work.Concrete has nothing to do with the life of a battery unless you get concrete dust in the battery that's bad.Contaminants they are bad so do not use tap water unless you have no choice battery life will be shortened.Corrosion on battery terminal will shorten the life of the battery, clean with hot water and use petroleum jellyLong term storage, the best way is actually keep it on a suitable charger with an electronic anti-sulphation device connected, you can keep a battery this way for quite a number of years, that when you want to use it is ready to use immediately.Using a battery when its very cold will shorten its life, hence some insulation from the floor will help ese warm it up a bit.For those that might be interested, Ignoring long term storage for optimum battery life, a battery should be kept fully charged using an intelligent charger, regular checks with a hydrometer will tell you when a battery is heading towards end of service life and is also a good way to check fluid levels unless it is a true "sealed for life" battery. If that is the case fluid levels etc are not relevant. Overcharging a battery will destroy it in a fairly short period of time and cause excessive gassing (hydrogen). The best life from a battery that is to be kept in service is to maintain a temp of 20-25 deg C (not always possible) above this temp batteries internal resistance increases reducing it ability to high currents when needed, below this temp batteries chemical reaction is slowed and the battery is unable to deliver the current and the internal resistance drops lower is ideal, so when required the full current is not available when needed, this normally leads to excessive heat being generated in the battery which means that the battery overheats once this starts to happen the plates buckle and the cycle to a very short life occurs. car/marine/motorcycle and similar batteries are specifically designed with this in mind. They have extra reinforcement between and around the plates, etc. This is to stop the plates from moving around due to vibration, heat, cold & so on. Using batteries like say a solar battery is not the way to go these type of batteries are designed for sitting in one place (traction batteries) they are not designed for high short duration bursts of current delivery such as starting an engine, they are designed to deliver power of a long period of time most of these type of batteries use either a 10 or 20 hour discharge rating. They will fail very quickly if used in air/marine/auto & mobile applications. So if use a battery designed to do the job you need it to do, with regular checks of the right type it will last longer and not let you down when you need it "to just work".If you ignore the acid thing for a minute weight for an air application is of course the big issue. Another is how much power does the aircraft need to supply any electrical equipment and still provide a suitable charge to the battery, that I cannot answer you would have to work that out yourself, but having a charging system on a engine that is overrated will simply take extra HP away from the engine wasting HP you want to use for flying.So getting back to batteries (eg motorbike battery) may provide a good option, it is designed with all of the above in mind. It might be suitable the only thing you have to deal with is any gassing that may occur and the overflow if it was to occur both of these are fairly easy to deal with, using a small overflow tank (plastic) and then a coiled vent tube to outside (for enclosed craft) and/or to a suitable location away from engine, people, fuel, structural parts & so on. You should be able to get at least 5 years and often many more years depending on the design life from a correctly chosen battery. If the battery is underrated for the chosen use its working life will be shortened.